Green Verdigris on Coins

I am wondering if the green stuff on coins like this is considered damage. Will it affect the coin with it on it? Would you buy a coin with this on it? I already have ugly large cents on the cheap so not looking to add another but just wondering.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1851-Large-...27?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item4aba6522cf

 

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Verdigris is a form of corrosion and it damages the coins surface underneath it. Member badthad makes verdicare which will help remove verdigris. But with the verdigris being soo servere i dont think theres much you could do to help it

 

I have some of BadThad's Verdicare™. If you're not going to bid, I might buy it, treat it, then post the results. Please let me know for sure so I don't bid against you.

Here's a coin I treated with Verdicare™ (no "before" pics). My coin wasn't near as bad as the one you're considering, though.

 

It would be worth $5 "to me" just to see what Verdicare™ can do with it (before/after pics). :thumb:

Granted...damaged coin regardless of what happens...not arguing against your point. :bow:

 

I am not bidding

I am just wondering since I haven't really encountered a coin like that. I know some have a green patina and people say that is ok but never seen one this green. The bidding is over $6 now and may get higher and my max for beat-ups or uglies is $5, plus the cost of Verdicare. I have seen nice chocolate brown large cents at a coin show for $15. That coin that you used Verdicare on looks nice. If you have to harshly clean it to prevent damage you are left with harshly cleaned, which is still only worth $5, to me anyway. Go ahead and bid if you want to try it out. There are a couple others like this one I seen on Ebay. I generally don't like to mess with coins I buy except if it is already cleaned I may dip it in alcohol and distilled water. I have tried to get gunk off of roll finds though using the least harsh method I can.

 

I think that if the photos were sharper, it would appear even more hopeless for complete recovery. In that I agree with the above on the use of Verdicare not able to remove all. But sometimes the use of Verdicare will remove enough of the surface of the corrosion to produce a more pleasing and acceptable effect. The problem I figure Thad often has is that users expect complete removal too often, and consider it a failure, if it only takes off some, even though the result is more acceptable than the original. It is a valuable tool for me for any copper coin I consider I wish a little less corrosion on, and leaving a preservative layer. Used as directed, it does well and harmlessly in my opinion. IMO.

Jim

 

Come to think of it, I am wondering why this large cent is black. I took it out of the 2x2 to put it into a mylan flip and does look better outside of this. I wonder why the seller slammed it against the table also, to show it was sturdy?

 

I get coins and tokens older than that and in worse condition from metal detecting, I just toss them in virgin olive oil for anything upto a year, the results can be surprising.
If they don`t clear I toss them in the scrap copper bin to await the smelters.

 

I was very pleased with the result on my half cent (above). I was concerned using it for the first time, but the verdigris was getting worse and would eventually destroy the coin. Verdicare™ didn't remove all the verdigris at first and I was somewhat disappointed. I put the coin up and didn't look at it again for a few months. When I did, I didn't see any verdigris at all. The patina is darker where the verdigris used to be, but it looks 1000% better!

Understand...I'm not a Dealer or Flipper. I buy coins for my own pleasure and will let my heirs worry about whether or not Verdicare™ hurts the value. Verdicare™ turned a coin that didn't please me to one that does. An 1804 half cent (plain 4 w/stems) isn't easy to come by in any condition. I'm happy that Verdicare™ arrested the verdigris and improved its eye appeal as much as it did.

Btw, I just bought the 1851 Cent for $8.40. That's way more than it's worth in its present condition, but it's worth it as a "practice piece" for Verdicare™. I'll post clearer before/after pictures when I get a chance to work with it.

 

There was another one like that last night going for $5 something but think that auction ended. I wasn't bidding on either of them was just wondering about the green verdigris. I rather not have to do anything to a coin really except maybe give it a new container. Roll finds are another thing since sometimes it is necessary.

 

Also, I've started avoiding sellers who post such poor, blurry photos. Granted, I'm no expert at photography, but at least I know that my point and shoot digital has a "macro" setting!

 

Yes, I know what you mean, especially those cell phone pics. I won an auction where the coin appeared glossy and of course the first thing that pops into peoples head is that it is polished. I just saw another coin that looked just like that using a cell phone as well, same glossy appearance. Not saying both could have been cleaned at one time, this is sometimes difficult to tell. The picture though was blurry and it was really difficult to tell what the deal is. I don't get out my camera, too much effort. I just put coins on a scanner and that works for me. I never bought the coin though even though I would have since I bid and won and it was only $2 but their was issues with the sellers Paypal and couldn't pay him. I contacted him about it but he never responded.

 

Most smart phones have a macro setting my avatar was taken with my Motorola electrify. But I 100% agree if I can't see enough detail in pics I pass

 

What is the difference between verdigris and PVC?

 

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Collectors of Ancients may have a difference opinion, but

Verdigris is a corrosion process generally initiated by environmental factors. PVC damage is a corrosion process initiated by the chemical plasticizers from flexible polyvinylchroide film. There is a short period of time between exposure and corrosion occurring during which the PVC can be removed with pure acetone and the coin will suffer no damage.

 

So they're both a form of corrosion, can both removed(if done quickly after the 'outbreak'), and both damage a coin if let go. So basically the same, but just caused by different things?

 

Yes, both ends up with corrosion of the surface. Both involves the same chemical processes, but the speed of the reaction is greater with PVC plasticizers. Plasticizers can draw moisture and act more like an active acid gel to start corrosion. It is also rather distinctive in appearance and draws attention. The beginning of verdigris is more subtle and slower and depends on the moisture and environmental factors against the coins surface by air as well as molecular diffusion of the contaminants.

As to whether both can be halted has been often debated. PVC activity has a "pre-corrosion" state where it is "gelling", and can be removed with acetone. All coins start to react with environmental factors right after they are minted unless they are sealed in a vacuum or solid acrylic. Any container that can be opened can "leak" over a period of time, including slabs or those called tite from air, just much , much slower. Patina actually protects the coins from quick chemical reaction, but with PVC, it progresses to corrosion faster. Moisture is the key. If moisture is greatly limited by using moisture removing chemicals, or sealing in zip lock bags, or sealing in mylar flips, the process is stopped or at least slowed down beyond our normal lives. In dry environments, with little corrosive substances in the air, corrosion can take hundreds or thousands of years.

Toning is a stage where the corrosion is in such thin molecular films that they refract the light to produce coloration different from the initial metal color. Differing thicness of corrosion film produces difference diffraction colors. Such patterns may be in colors and display that they are either "pretty" or "ugly" depending on the observer and their reaction. Toning can be fast or very slow, but the chemical processes are the same whether done by nature or aided by humans intentionally. Once the tone is obtained, protection must be done or the corrosive process may continue slowly and the tone changed.

Some have differing thoughts on the above, so it is "IMO" , but chemistry is chemistry.

Jim

 

Really look forward to seeing what it does. Contact BadThad and let him know, he might want to use some of your pics.