The CAC Dreck Thread

Some may be of the opinion the coins posted in the OP to this thread are dreck.

It's all about one's opinion.

As Doug poised in his first post to this thread, I believe, who's to say if something posted is dreck?

It will be only an opinion, much like the opinion on the label, and that of the sticker company.

 

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Guy, that is simply not true. You are implying that I am crusading against CAC haters. The purpose of this thread was to expose those critics of the CAC that are extremely vocal but have no practical experience with what they are flaming. You should notice that some of the most vocal critics in other threads are noticeably absent in this thread.

Earlier, I managed to post what I consider to be a CAC Dreck coin before all of the lunacy started in this thread. Nobody even wanted to comment on the merits of the coin. Personally, I think it was a very good example of CAC Dreck and I would not buy that coin for MS65 money, especially when you consider how many MS65 1923 Peace Dollars are available. If people would actually discuss the coins posted in this thread rather than complaining about the fairness of the thread, this thread could be very educational.

 

Would this count as CAC Dreck?

 

Since you quoted something, (something not in your "rules' btw, but later on), I will quote your "rules" to you Paul.

"Here are the rules. If you are posting a coin, you must divulge how many CAC coins you have actually owned in your life, how many you have personally submitted to CAC, and if you own the coin being posted or are just borrowing from another website as an example. In the event that you don't have a CAC Dreck, I would still like to encourage your participation. All you have to do is provide the information requested above and then apologize for posting a CAC coin that is actually good for the assigned grade."



Read more: http://www.cointalk.com/t211178/#ixzz22mi6E083

Really? "provide all of the requested information", "and then APOLOGIZE"?

Seriously I thought this could have been an informative thread if it instead would have been: "Post an overgraded CAC coin", and your rules hadn't been so snarky. I know the thread was not directed at me, since I haven't posted anti-CAC here, but you can simply tell it was crafted in a fit of anger at perceived anti-CAC members. Toned down a bit and I believe you could have accomplished your goal of showing how CAC does in general only sticker better coins for the grade. I believe its very valuable for sight unseen bidding, not perfect, but valuable.

That is all I am really saying about this thread. Good luck with it.

Chris

 

Well if you treat CAC like it is totally unrelated to TPG's, then may you are right. But I think this quote from you kind of explains how you got dragged in to this whole mess. Don't Cha think ? :foot-mouth: You got to at least give this one to me :rollling:

I know, its just a lot easier to let someone else think and just enjoy the pretty view of coins through plastic. You can never touch it, but at least you avoided having to try to think.

Collecting TPG coins is a lot like competing in the special olympics, yes you get to compete but not quite at the same level as those who are fully functioning. Short bus coin collecting as it were.

I through those last couple of lines in just for you Paul, I figured you needed to get your blood boiling this morning.



​

 

Again, nothing to do with CAC AT ALL, and writeen in response to Paul bringing up TPG in a CAC thread. He brought it up in his post #16, not I. Btw, I said right in there I put those lines in just to poke fun at Paul, it was a joke, (one which at least ten members have taken out of context now).

 

Ok, I think Paul had a valid point and I'll take it up by replying to bkozak's:

I would most certainly call that dreck. The grade may be MS62, but it's a horrible example of the grade in my opinion. Terrible eye appeal, distracting toning and specks. Thats got to be the very bottom of the 62 range if you ask me. Sorry if thats your coin, but you asked.
Guy

 

no its not mine. I stated earlier I dont own any cac coins as those were the rules. I would be disapointed if I bought that coin sight unseen.

 

Boo hoo!

The "apology" was meant as a joke and it was just as evident as my snarkiness towards the CAC critics. However, nothing in my presentation of this thread changes the performance of the CAC.

 

While that coin is hideous in the photo, I don't really know where to go with it. Based on the obverse photo, the coin appears to have MS64 surfaces and the TPG penalized the grade 2 points for the substandard luster and eye appeal. I think this is an example of a horrible looking coin but not necessarily a coin that is not good for the grade.

 

And this has to do with what?


Aside from hairy ears and a typo.

 

Doug:

But, they (CAC) do provide a service, as you stated.

If you like them, then go for it.

If not, then pass.

However, they do state that they will buy any CAC'd coins. The only questions is what is the purchase price.

ie, what basis? Grey sheet bid? Ask? trends? (I doubt the last).

 

I say that I'll take PCGS and CAC's word over ANYONE'S opinion if that opinion is solely based on a photo.

 

Not at all, Paul. I'm saying each one of us has an opinion that differes from the next, nothing more. TPG's and CAC are opinions, nothing more. Therefore if I think a coin's grade is a 63 and you think it's a 65 and a TPG thinks it's a 64, who's right? It's all a matter of opinion. That was my point. What is dreck to me may not be so to you and vise-versa. Thats why this debate can only be a stalemate, even if we churn out another 97 pages here. Truth be known, I'd trust your eye for coins over a TPG's any day. I am clueless why you don't feel the same way.
Guy

 

Point taken, now answer me this. Would you bid on this coin sight unseen with only that Heritage photo? If not, you might want to consider that this coin is CAC DRECK! :devil:

 

The answer to that question is simple. Nobody cares about my opinion when it comes time to sell the coin. The only opinions that matter at sale time are that of the TPG & CAC. But I get your point about the subjectivity of grading. And while threads like this can be a stalemate, I think they can be both fun and educational if we can keep the extracurriculars to a minimum.

PS. EAC collectors are a special group for which TPG grades are not nearly as important. I only bring this up because I believe you are an EAC collector.

 

You are correct about me being an EAC member, and that these discussions can be informative and educational. If we all agreed with everything this would be a pretty dull place.
Guy

 

No I do not disagree that those grade bumps exist and I don't like it. I have my ideas how we got there but none of that matters, just the fact that we are there. This is a sticky problem for CAC and there is a lot of room for argument on both sides of this one. I for one though, believe CAC is doing the right thing by going along with this aberration of the grading system.

Think about it for one second. CAC could stand up to the fact, and except in rare cases when the coins are properly graded. decide to not sticker the coins you mention because technically speaking, they are not solid for the grade. That is one option, but who does this hurt, the TPG's or the collector's. It hurts the collector's. Now I am more of a type guy, so I don't see this much, but let's say I am looking for that '93 S Morgan. This is a big buck coin, and this is where I would benefit from CAC the most. If CAC did not sticker these coins, they would be of no use to me at all, now would they. They would also start to get the reputation, "they are Ok, but they are no help if you are looking for key dates". Also the other coins you mentioned.

So it seems it is better to take the whole picture in consideration and to sticker these coins based on the scale they are graded on, even if that scale is inflated. This way, if I go for that '93 S morgan in AU50 and it is stickered, at least I now it is solid when measured against all the other '93 s Morgans in AU50.

Now of course I would prefer to have the whole TPG thing straighted out, but I am not counting on that and JA has to deal with the cards he is dealt.

Mike