El Cazador Shipwreck - Spanish 8 Real silver coin dates

El Cazador 1784 Shipwreck - Spanish 8 Real silver coin dates??

Hi Folks,

I'm new to this site, I have recently started collecting all types of silver coins, and bars.

I recently became fascinated with shipwrecks and salvaged treasure.

I won an auction on Ebay for a 1780 Spanish Real, said to be recovered from the El Cazador that sunk in 1784 off the Louisiana coast. I posted 4 photos below, of the actual coin I won in the auction.
My winning bid was $129


See link for the auction below.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110821257441?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_500wt_1054


This is my 1st purchase of shipwreck coins, I have a few concerns and Im looking for expertise from people who know a lot about this wreck and the coins that have been recovered.

1st of all on the NGC verification page, there is no Photo associated with this coin, on the website.

http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/CertResults.aspx?CertNumber=3067303-085

It says not available, this is the 1st coin I have seen with no photo available.


2ndly I am a little concerned about the authenticity of the coin itself.
Almost all of the coins found on the Cazador were dated 1783. It was a delivery of 450,000 coins just minted in Mexico.

This coin is dated 1780.

Also It is in relatively very good condition, it is hard to tell its been underwater over 200 years. Most of the coins retrieved are in poor condition and dont have many details left at all. IM wondering if this coin was on the Cazador, Or if someone took a normal 1780 8R coin and put it in this sleeve and called it shipwreck find.


This coin is graded by NGC so that should ease any concerns I have, but by not having the photo on their website and the year being 1780, when it sounds like all the coins found on the wreck were 1783, freshly minted in Mexico, gives me some pause.

I have read in a few places that there is a range of dates for the coins found.

Im hoping someone here can shed some light, and maybe they have a 1780 coin also???

I have not paid for the auction yet, and the seller is demanding immediate payment.

Im hoping you guys can help me, if its not genuine, I dont want to pay for it, but if it is, sounds like a quality coin in great shape from a historic wreck.

PLease anyone with any info on this particular coin please give me some info.

1780MO FF MEXICO 8R EL CAZADOR GENUINE NGC



Thank you

 

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It is most likely Genuine and NGC would not have listed it as coming from the El Cazador unless documentation was provided. The reason it does not show a picture in the verification page is explained by the hologram on the reverse. That hologram tells me it was slabbed before April 2008 and NGC did not start adding images until late 2008 or early 2009. (Don't remember the exact date.)

 

Thanks for the quick reply, being that it is graded by NGC does make me feel much better. Im hoping someone knows about what specific dates were found on this wreck, almost all the coins you see avail are 1783. There seems to be some 1781 and 1782s's here and there. If this coin is from the el cazador being that it is a 1780 instead of the common year coins of 1783, this could add to the value of it, being that there are very few of this year found on the wreck. Im just hoping this is the case. The coin is in great shape, relative to many of the other coins found on this wreck.

 

Does anyone have any information regarding the dates of the coins found on this wreck? We know the vast majority are from 1783.
Does anyone know about other dates 1780 - 82 and how common they may be?

 

I paid for the item this morning. If NGC certified it, that has to mean something. From the research I have done, on eBay I have seen coins graded by NGC certified from the El Cazador from 1776-1783. The 1780 coin falls into this range.

 

I'd only be worried if you found a 1785 8 real labaled with an El Cazador sticker...

 

I have one of the NGC slabbed coins dated 1781 that I bought a few years ago. Seems to me I paid about $175 but bought a few raw versions later for about $75.

All the coins were corroded and required heavy cleaning. Although most were dated 1773 and fresh from the Mexico mint, there were also many (I've never seen any exact numbers) other older coins of the same type in various sizes dated 1772-1782.

If my memory is correct (and sometimes it isn't), after the coins were recovered from the wreck south of New Orleans in 1993, they were held in storage for a number of years as the salvagers tried to negotiate deals for their purchase. After a few small sales, they negotiated a large deal with Franklin Mint to purchase the best quality coins. Franklin Mint had them slabbed by NGC, put them in nice wood boxes, and included "certificates." FM then struck an exclusive sales deal with Home Shopping Network to sell a certain large quantity on TV. HSN was the only place you could get those first coins. I had heard news of the deal in the business press and decided to buy one, not knowing if they were going to be available any other way later.

After Franklin Mint's deal expired with HSN, they began selling the remainder of the slabbed coins themselves. They sold out within a couple of years and are no longer available from FM -- although they are still available on the secondary market (as you know) -- and other lesser quality nonslabbed coins have been sold by other retailers with taglines such as "Silver Dollar of the American Revolution."

Here's a cute little video on FM's website that tells some of the story:

http://www.elcazador.com/

 

I agree, but they're not worth melt because they're damaged. You can't compare one of these to a cleaned Morgan dollar. There are plenty of these around so they're not rare and I don't think the dates matter that much. Most I've seen that were slabbed like this are in the 80 to $100 range. I'd be willing to give that much for one myself.

Shipwreck coins are pretty cool. You should check out the ones NGC slabbed from the SS Republic wreck in 1865. I've wanted to get one of those but they are quite pricey.

 

Help Please. Do these seem legit?

This is a link to the page on ebay where I won three El Cazador coins. Prior to these we have raffles off 3 others for our non profit, High Hopes 4 Autism, and these certificates do not look the same as the others. The first 3 we got were donated from a different place but I decided to buy these because we had more seed money for out event than in the past. Anyway I just wanted to make sure they were real before we get them set into a necklace. Thank you so much for any help you can offer to help us legitimize these. I contacted the seller but I want to make sure because it would look really bad for the organization if it was not real.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...7&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160#ht_5790wt_1089

 

They can not be any 1776 coins. The Wreck happen in 1774.

 

So I assume OP paid a fair "ballpark" price for his?? $125 is a bit lower than I have seen them go for lately & I would like to get one also. Thanks, Bill

 

1784 according to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Cazador_(ship)

 

It appears to me that rem2000 paid $119 for three of them. That's $40 each. Am I reading the eBay listing wrong? If you look at that same listing, eBay posted under "more chances to win", ten of them priced at just over $43 each.

 

:hail:1790 was a very good year....