Are grading services getting more or less harsh with their standards.

You should qualify that statement with "PCGS is tighter than NGC on Lincoln Cents". The general statement is blatantly false for many other series.

 

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I knew I liked you guys for some reason. Didn't realize we agreed so closely pertaining to luster!

 

It is not the TPGs fault that that the market is so exaggerated over the minor differences between a 64 and 65 grade, especial with the existing lack of precision of grading both before and after slabbed grading.

But if you want to discuss markets, just see what happens when you try to sell a coin without the slab for a high level MS coin. The slab will help you bring a much better return both in ultimate price and turnover time.

Amanda

 

I could not agree more, right or wrong it is the market that decides, not individual opinion.

Mike

 

While I think this is largely true in most areas of the U.S. market it is not yet true in the large cent/early copper market which I believe coleguy is mainly in. For this section of the market I would argue it's more common to see raw coins then graded one and the serious collector base is very knowledgeable about grading. It helps that we have our own price guide and grading system which pretty much forces anyone who wants to serious collect to learn how to grade.

Just as an example, the last EAC sale had 529 lots with no more then 20 coins in TPG holders. Two other points about the sale, the average sale price for each lot was close to $700 and there were probably 20 or more coins which in the description read, previously in X holder graded as YY. These are not low dollar coins being sold without TPGing and a significant number of the coins were removed from holders.

My distaste for the incentives I see with the grading companies was one of the attractions to early copper collecting. Third party grading is not as prevalent and does not drive the market, many knowledgeable collectors are present, and honest dealers are still the norm.

 

Agreed, EAC has a different market and drivers.
Unfortunately, the statements were general and not consistent with most US collecting and grading.

I will concede, my comment about not liking money was a bit rude and over the top.

My bad,
Mikek

 

Which is interesting since it is very likely that this is the area of coinage where the most amount of coin alteration by collectors has happened over the decades.
http://www.1794largecents.com/1794/bios.htm

also

http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=24335

 

You're right I should have qualified my statement , about PCGS is tighter then NGC on Lincolns . But they're also tighter on SLQs . Also they are both guilty of over grading coins compared to ANA 6th edition standards . They both grade on individual scales , in a perfect world they'd adopt one scale and use it consistently . I also don't like market grading and bumping key grades a point . Wear is wear and if a coin was handled enough at a bank to have wear it shouldn't be graded as an Unc . coin . To me circulation happens after it leaves the mint .

 

This thread is very amusing to me based on something that happened to me last week. I bought an 1877 IHC in an AU-55 NGC holder from a dealer I trust (gorgeous coin, btw). I thought it was closer to AU-50, and the price matched my lower grade estimate. After I paid for the coin, I asked the dealer what he really thought of the grade. I indicated that I thought NGC tended to overgrade IHC's relative to PCGS. He told me thought not only was the coin graded fairly, but he saw NO DIFFERENCE IN HOW PCGS AND NGC GRADED.

 

But how good of a grader is he ? Gut really mosy of the over graded Lincolns I see compared to NGC and PCGS are the higher grade MS coins . In circulated grades they're pretty similar .

 

A lot of us have experiences like this. The only difference is that my closest dealer is 2nd generation coin shop dealer that NEVER sends a coin to any company except PCGS. Buy prices are significantly lower with NGC slabs and actually said to me one time that "PCGS was the only TPG you could trust". Wow

 

If that were true, it would be easy to find anecdotal evidence to prove it. I have a lot of trouble finding NGC pronged holdered Jefferson Nickels that look overgraded compared to Jeffs in old slabs from the 90's.

 

It isn't easy Doug, I have Jefferson Nickels graded in the 90's and Jeffersons graded within the last few years and I don't see a obvious difference in grading standards.

 

You collect Jefferson Nickels? Why?

 

I guess the appropriate answer for this thread would be because grading standards have not changed!

 

I am sure you are right, I have only looked at a handful of Jefferson Nickels in my life.