Teen pays in legal tender has to call cops

he was correct and the police enforced the law as they should, the gentleman who paid with pennies did not willingly enter into a private transcation, they were forced into this position and were fulfilling a debt. Thus the business in question had to accept the currency or forfeit the debt.

Obviously there is a reason this law is in place, if you owe someone a debt, the person you owe the debt can not arbitrarily decide what he wants to be paid in. He has to take U.S. currency in any form offered.

 

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What is the statute on this law? It says on the bill to pay all debts public and private, but idk about pennies,,,, can this really work? I have a 45 dollar parking ticket....

 

It says it's "legal tender for all debts, public and private." It doesn't say that merchants must accept such legal tender for any debts.
A merchant is free to accept only stones, tootsie rolls, or origami swans for payment. Most don't, obviously, since it's nice having a currency and not having to use a barter system.

EDIT: Also, how did this thread get resurrected? Crazy how folks come across these old threads. Must be searching deep.

 

Well that doesnt really answer my question, what's the statute, obviously there had to be one if it took three-four cops.

 

You're asking what's the statute saying anybody can accept anything they want as payment?

I'm pretty sure it's the absence of a statute that dictates that. Nothing has been passed saying you have to accept US currency for a debt.
I could be wrong, however, and anybody is free to correct me.

 

Hmm, i wonder what the cops went off of then...Does anyone know, even if there is a statute?

 

Holy resurrection! Don't confuse debt with purchases. What the law states is that the debtor has to take any legal tender as payment for the debt. This means you can pay your mortgage, traffic fines, bail, vehicle loan, real estate taxes, etc in this manner, and lender/tax collector/fining authority must take it as payment. But, there is no law requiring a merchant to accept all legal tender for payment of a purchase. That means he doesn't have to take your million pennies (rolled or unrolled) to buy your car/TV/groceries/cable bill etc. He can tell you to spend your money someplace else with no risk of penalty (other than losing the sale). So the kids were technically right (a traffic fine/impound fee?), although I agree, it was a stupid stunt to prove a point, just like getting it towed in the first place must have been

 

The law states no such thing. The law states that the currency is a legally recognized offer of settlement. It does not require that it be accepted, not does it indicate that if refused the debt is discharged. But since it IS a legally recognized attempt at settlement the creditor can not claim that the debtor has not tried to settle the debt and so no additional penalties may be applied. In this case if they refused the cents he can't get his car back, but they could not increase the fine for late payment or add court costs etc.

Frankly the proper way to handle him would have been to take the cents, give him a receipt that stated he had given them cents of APPARENTLY the amount of the fine, and that "we will now give them to the bank who will send them out for counting and once the bank verifies the amount is correct we will release your car. This will take about a week."

 

If you have an outstanding debt in the US, and it is measured in dollars, you can pay that debt using US currency. If you owe someone an item or service, then that's a different matter. There are a couple of states that have laws stating that reasonable restrictions can be put in place, but those have to be posted and I suspect these might be in violation of federal law. If someone has the time to check for court decisions on the matter, be my guest.

If things are as you say they are Conder101, then I could run a towing business that tows cars and whatever form of payment a person brings in, I could refuse it. "We are not currently accepting $20 bills. Please come back with a different form of payment." (person returns with $10 bills) "Sorry, we are not currently accepting $10 bills..." Repeat as many times as you want until the day comes where they legally forfeit ownership of their car.

Now, the law that everyone keeps asking for is simple and was posted several years ago in post number six:

TITLE 31 § 5103. Legal tender
United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues.

(Please note that it does include coins)

What better authority on the matter can you ask for besides offical United States Code? I know that Snopes and a US Treasury quote taken out of context come close, but I'll stick with the letter of the law, thank you.

In this situation, there was a debt, so all the nonsense about businesses being able to refuse a customer making a purchase using pennies is irrelevant.

 

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Bottom line is, any business can choose to except certain forms of payment, or not except them.

How many times have any of you walked into a 7-Eleven after 9PM and tried to use a $50 or $100 bill, only to see a sign which states, "NO $50 or $100 Bills Accepted After 9 P.M."?

Before there was coin star, Banks refused to accept unrolled change.

 

The original poster, and folks in the video were simply ignorant. They simply didn't know the law.


You, on the other hand, have chosen for some inexplicable reason to be intentionally misleading and/or misinformed. I suspect the former, given your misuse of words and terms.


TO begin with, as you'd know had you followed the link, the US Treasury cites exactly the same statute, and indeed precisely the same section of it, as you, when rendering their opinion that you are wrong.

Secondarily, you suggest that the quotes are 'taken out of context" Except, you see:

The US Treasury quote was taken directly from their answer to :

In other words, the context of the quote was, quite specifically, the same as the topic being discussed. Is it illegal to refuse legal tender as payment?

You may "stick with the letter of the law" all you wish.

You are, however, misinterpreting it, as is made clear by those tasked with enforcing it.

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I don't really get why this concept is so hard to grasp.

Legal tender is legal, as tender. That's it. it's allowed to be used to pay things. There's not a single section, even a vague grey area, that even BEGINS to suggest it MUST be accepted by ANYONE to whom it is offered.

It's legal to pick your nose and wipe the results on the nearest hedgehog.

That doesn't make it mandatory.

 

Under what statute would the business forfeit the debt?

There's no such statute at all. The business can decide what forms of payment they are willing to accept. The only thing the U.S. Code says is that the currency of the U.S. is legal tender for all debts public, private and taxes due. Not that people are mandated to accept it.

 

My suggestion to you would be to contact the parking bureau and inquire as to what forms of payment they accept. Specifically ask if they would accept 4500 pennies as payment.

They are not required to accept that, and in fact most parking bureaus will accept cash, check, or money order, and debit/credit cards.

As far as the statute, it does not say that legal tender currency must be accepted. Only that currency and coins are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes and dues. Meaning you can use that to pay any debts, buy things, pay taxes. It doesn't mean the creditor has to accept it as a form of payment.

 

The issue was not refusing service to this guy, whom I might remind you was the cause of his vehicle being towed in the first place; but refusing to accept his form of payment, which they have every right to do.

 

[video=youtube;Ovk4JNw3hAk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovk4JNw3hAk[/video]

 

As long as they were not 1877 IHC.:smile

 

From your own quote:

Your failure to understand the difference between a voluntary payment for goods and services yet to be received and obligitory payment of a debt is where you are mistaken.

Tell you what. If you believe what you say is true, I have a deal for you. You lend me $10,000 and I will attempt to repay that debt using pennies. This will constitute a "valid and legal offer of payment". (I will have a witness) You go ahead and refuse my payment. When you do, I will no longer legally owe you a dime.

 

Actually, after doing a little research, it seems the debt wouldn't be nullified, but I wouldn't have to pay any interest from the time I made a "valid and legal offer of payment" and the court expenses would be on you to recover your money. If the court forced me to pay my debt, I'd bring $10,000 in pennies and and if you want your money back, you'd have to take them.

 

Except that day of legal forfeiture of ownership would never come. They made a legal attempt to settle the debt with legal tender. Yes you can refuse it but then you can't apply additional penalties such as forfeiture of ownership, or storage charges.

The law merely says they are legal tender for all debts. It still says nothing about forced acceptance. Legal tender means a legally recognized form of payment. So allthe law says is that US coins and currency are legally recognized forms of payment for all debts. It does not say they must be accepted.