So in my search for the "perfect" seated example, I have a question. I've been noticing that the seated half in a lot of cases has a brownish tone to it, almost as if it wasnt made from silver but from the likes of copper or brass. On the flip side there are some great examples that are nice and clean silver example. Now I don't seem to find this "Browning" on other coins such as the Morgan or even barber. Yet on the seated and even capped bust, I do. So in my search for a good "came from the mint" example, is there something I'm missing with these browning coins? Or am I just thinking too much.
You are seeing coins that are toned, that's all. It's nothing unusual nor uncommon. Next to grey, a brownish color is the one most often found.
Agreed. Also, when it comes to circulated old silver, brownish hues are very common. Between circulation dirt and album storage, this brown will be prevalent. When you find circulated old silver that doesn't have dirt and no toning at all, then I would be concerned that it was dipped or cleaned.
This color range you are writing about can be completely normal and can be a sign of a coin with thick, original skin. I do not know what grade range you are looking for, but VF-AU coins retain significant amounts of dirt, gunk, grease and oils that turn the coin dark over the years. Coins in lower grades are usually a bit more slick on their surfaces and might end up being slightly different in hue possibly due to this difference in surface texture, if you will. Seated and Capped Bust coinage is not only old, but quite a few examples remain in decent collector grades (VF-AU) whereas Barber coinage was often worn to nearly a nub, which can make the coins appear a bit less deep in color. Morgan dollars rarely circulated enough to generate this color range, but they are easy enough to find given their enormous production numbers. You write that you want an example that looks like it "came from the mint" and this has me confused and concerned. If you want a completely untoned example that is shiny white then you want a dipped coin that has had its surfaces stripped. Many collectors prefer this look and the major coin grading firms (PCGS and NGC) will readily certify these coins in problem-free holders, but be aware that a blazing white Seated half dollar will be identified immediately by most experienced folks as one that has been dipped. Again, this isn't a bad thing for some, but it is for others. If, however, you are looking for untoned, white VF-AU coins then you are definitely looking for coins with a very limited market for acceptance and that will almost always be rejected by PCGS and NGC as having been cleaned. The market simply does not as readily accept coins in this grade range with such brightly stripped surfaces. Here are a few images of dark, circulated coins. They are all half dollars and are all completely original with unstripped surfaces. They range in grade from VF25 through AU55 and feature an array of "looks". Do any, or all, of these look like what you are writing about? 1805 PCGS VF30- 1817/3 NGC EF45- 1837 PCGS AU55- 1838 PCGS AU55- 1883 PCGS EF40- 1893-S PCGS EF40- 1921 PCGS VF25-
Tom B they do indeed describe what I'm talking about. You did a great job on your description. And yes I'm fully aware of the disdain of cleaned/dipped coinage. This is even evident in my search where PCGS/NGC will I.D. them as cleaned. I too try to stay away from this. I was just curious why I hadn't encountered this kind of color yet. I'll just keep looking.
I'm thinking you missed the point. You can find these blast white coins in TPG holders but a blast white coin of this age has been dipped even though it graded cleanly at the TPG.
No, they won't. Only if a coin is over-dipped will NGC/PCGS put the coin in a problem slab (Genuine/Details) and mark it as having been harshly cleaned or having altered surfaces. There are literally millions of coins that have been dipped and then graded and slabbed by NGC and PCGS. In fact, NGC and PCGS have been known to dip coins themselves and then grade and slab them.
No, they called it dipping, and publicly admitted to it. Though it still happens, I am talking about a time long before NCS ever existed. And PCGS doesn't have a sister company like NCS is to NGC. They never have had. edit - and they did not charge for it either.
Oh gotchya. Is it safe to say that dipping was a common and accepted practice in coin collecting up until fairly recently? I happened to have a book called "the conserving and cleaning of coins" from the 70's, from my Dad. Along with a coin cleaning kit that looks like a portable meth lab. On a side note.. Inside the book is a news paper article about cleaning coins (what practices are acceptable) my dad clipped and stuck in there. It mentioned that King Faruk (spelling?) had a glorious coin colleciton, but liked his coins shiny. At the time of the article, it said he devalued his collection to the tune of $1 million via cleaning. Thought that was interesting. The article was not dated, but it is certainly over 40 years old.
It is safe to say that dipping is a common and accepted practice even today. It always has been. But Farouk used to polish his coins - with a cloth. A practice that is as different from dipping as night is from day.
