I've identified three types of toning that developed on PCGS slabbed spouse coins that were stored in a bank vault with an Intercept Shield box and silica gel. Interestingly, the types also seem to be spouse specific, in that Types 1 and 2 were similarly on another coin of the same spouse. I'm considering sending the first two types in for an Appearance Review. Here's my two-part question that will depend on "What's it Worth:" 1) Are these worth more than 69s? (opinion) 2) Does PCGS downgrade gold for red tone and red spots? Type #1: The Fillmore Wash. It looks a little like a reddish wash that you can even see "brushstrokes" in. Type #2: Grant Spots. Type #3: The Lincoln Tan. Mary's neck and right cheek is very red-orange. I find this even tone actractive. Any comments/opinions are appreciated.
It's possible that the final wash/rinse left some residue on the planchets, and it was just a matter of time before the residue affected the surface of the coins. It's possible that PCGS will downgrade them and reimburse you for the difference in value (their call). Chris
Thanks Chris. I see from your avatar that you may like toning! Is it your opinion that this kind of toning should deflate them from a 70s price or will it depend on the toning. For example, do you think the Lincoln is "good" toning?
If any of those marks on the Lincoln aren't on the slab, then I think it was overgraded in the first place. Yes, I like toning, but I don't consider spotting from an ineffective wash/rinse to be toning. Chris
If they are 70s going into the slab, no reason why they still aren't 70s. Toning doesn't reduce the grade of any coin--in fact many folks seek out toned 70s.
Thanks for all your replies! Here's just a little something for each! The marks aren't on the coin. (Phew!) I don't mean to open up the whole "why is my gold getting red spots" debate but are you saying that the planchets are rinsed before striking and that may be the cause? The Fillmores in particular looked like that's the case. Good to know! Unless of course it develops some "unattractive" toning in the slab... Do you think that "Tone Appreciation" is found amoungst collectors of Moderns? I will call on Monday. How did yours turn out? Were there red spots or whole areas? and were they downgraded for that? Also good to know! Do you know if that is the same for red spots? I know "Hazing" is a different animal than Toning...
PCGS might consider these to still grade 70, but you may have a mighty hard time convincing someone to pay a price consistent with the grade on the holder.
That's what I was thinking... I hope I didn't OD on the questions! Especially @ dwhiz about the details of the Spot Review. I'm really curious how it turned out!
Why did/does the US Mint use a rinse on .9999 gold spouse coins? Does any one have specific information on this? Thanks, Jim
We can't all be Mary Anns! If Mr. and Mrs. Howell were on separate coins, I'll bet it's the Mrs. Howell coin would be worse designed. I actually was impressed with the sculpting skills of our mint employees when looking at these blown up large.
The way I understand it, the blanks, after getting rimmed, go into a steel drum with steel beads and some cleaning solutions mixed with water, and are spun around for about 20 minutes or so. Afterwards, they're dumped onto a sifter to separate the blanks from the beads. The blanks are toweled dry by hand. The spots that are being referred to quite possibly is residue of the cleaning solutions used in the drum.
What are the chances that acetone or NCS (same thing?) could remove it? I'll have to look up the "red spots on my gold" thread again but there might be a difference between the Fillmore Wash and the Grant Spots pictured above.
I'm on my iPad, so I can't see the details very well. Is your complaint about the big dark spot on and around Lincoln's neck, or is that a reflection of your head from taking the photo? If it is not a reflection, then I would think you'd want to follow up with PCGS because that is not a look I'd want on my gold (or other) coins, 70s or not. If you are talking about something else, I apologize for bringing it up.
I prefer to think I am investigating as opposed to complaining but yes, Mary's orange neck is the red-orange tone, not my reflection. I even hid my finger so's not to add color. While I think of one set as my personal collection, I did have to talk my wife into helping me budget for the series so resale value is a consideration. PS: None of the NGC slabbed Spouses seem to be developing anything red. I've heard it theorized on other sites that there's something in the PCGS slab that starts it. Could this be the Achilles heel to modern PCGS gold collections?!
Spot Remover I sent two of the types of spots discussed here to PCGS for review; the type 1 "Fillmore Wash" I sent in was similar to the example shown in the 1st post, but on a 69 Fillmore, and I sent in 2 examples of the type 2 "Grant Spots," one of which was the actual coin photoed in the 1st post; now a before shot for the pics below. Same grades, no spots and the wash-like tone were all magically removed. I also sent in a PR70 gold that had hazed, it too was "fixed."
Thanks. At $25 per coin, it's good news for anyone with similarly toned gold. We'll see if the spots come back...
