How to grade it? It is in really good condition apart from the nasty crack in the middle. A very rare coin, R7 - meaning 4-6 are known. And finally - how much is it worth? http://www.toya.net.pl/~fragli/dukat1.jpg http://www.toya.net.pl/~fragli/dukat2.jpg
Looks like that crack may have been a hole. Anyway, I'll give you bullion value for it. If it really is that rare, think there is no set "value" - it will get what ever it gets at auction. The question is, then, what have others sold for (IF any others have sold).
Howdy khub - Welcome to the Forum !! It's not often that someone asks about my favorite coins - ducats This is a very nice example and were it not for the damage it would grade XF. You are correct about the coin having been bent, and that may indeed have been the cause of the damage. But make no mistake, the coin has been holed and plugged. You can see the repair work on the reverse and the different metal. The damage to the coin would diminish its value greatly. But that doesn't mean the offer you mentioned is out of line. But to be honest, I don't know off the top of my head what the expected value or the rarity might be. But I can do some research when I get home and hopefully find you some answers. You mention it has an R7 rating - on what rarity scale may I ask ?
I think he said 4-6 known pieces, so that wouldn't be Sheldon (Sheldon's R7 means 4-12 known), but still extremely rare!
The rarity scales for world coinage are dependent on what book they come from. In other words this guy's scale might go from 1 to 4 - another 1 - 10 and so on. So I am asking what author's scale is he using ?
Thanks for a warm welcome "the coin has been holed and plugged. You can see the repair work on the reverse and the different metal" Thats an interesting remark. A couple of numismatics have seen the coin, but no one called it that way, strange thing. I really don't know what to think, but it rather seems to me that the piece you take for a plug is an original fragment of the coin that cracked this way. Take a look again at the big crack on the neck, and a similar thing happening a bit down to the left from that. It looks like cracking exactly the same way. Interesting, still! I dont know what the rarity scale is called, but it goes like that: R* = 1 R8 = 2-3 R7 = 4-6 R6 = 7-25 R5 = 26-120 R4 = 121-600 R3 = 601-3000 R2 = 3001-15000 R1 = 15001-80000 R = 80000-400000 - -over 400000 it is a popular scale used in Poland by professional numismatics and in catalogues. I have found out about two appearances of this coin on the market - in 1904 it sold for 295 mark in Poland, and in 1962 at Coin Galleries NY for 520 USD. If you can find anything else - would be great!
OK, you're looking at the obverse of the coin - now look at the reverse in the top center. The eagle is on the left - knight on horse to the right. Now look right between the two - the metal in this area is a different color entirely from the rest of the coin. And you can see where it has been smoothed over. It extends to and covers part of the eagle's wing on the left and to the neck of the horse on the right. This metal does not even have the same texture as the rest of the coin. You can, if you look close also see the edge of the former hole all the way around this area. And this hole corresponds exactly with the damge on the obverse of the coin. This different colored metal is gold, but it is not the same gold as the original coin. It has been added to act like a solder to hold the previously broken pieces together. Looking at the obverse, right at the bottom edge of the damage and just above the collar you can even see the new metal that was added. See how it is a different color right there ? That's because there is no original metal to fill that part of the hole. So you are seeing the underside of the new metal. I'l provide what additional information I can later this evening.
Hmm, well, I think you are right, or almost right After another examination I think the coin has been plugged with the original piece (now cracking again) but I am still not sure whether any extra material has been added. The soldering operation might have resulted in some change of colour and texture of the original gold, and thats why it looks different and the shapes are distorted. Especially the horse's snout Tomorrow i'll scan the picture of this coin from a catalogue - nice to compare. Now i need sleep - it's already after midnight in Poland...
Well I wasn't able to find out much additional info - I don't have any books specializing on Polish coinage. But I know the coin was issued by John III Sobieski 1674-1696. The Freidberg number for the coin is 96 ( 25 in older editions ). Typically any coin that is rare, or even scarce, is indicated - this one is not. And the value listed is as $3000 US in VF and $6000 US in XF. Considering the damage, the coin would net grade as F at best in my opinion. That would likely value the coin at around $1000 US. Just my opinion.
Hello, six years later If anyone's interested in verifying their opinions on the coin - its rarity and price - watch this auction: http://www.aukcjamonet.pl/index.php?content=main&pid=80&id=91&parentid=0&naukcji=0&aukcja=4 lot 106
I found this post today. I would say you can ask $75000 at least (I know it's risky to say 75 times more than Doug ), and you may even double this price having luck and good collector buyer. This is truly rare coin and many ducats and two-ducats of Jan III Sobieski are coins we are looking here for. And this is opinion from Poland, place where coin was struck Condition is a little bit secondary thing here, this is coin not existing in mint condition, especially these cracks on the coin flan are nothing unusual. I am not sure about plugging a hole, but for sure coin was repaired.
As you see in the link in previous post, the coin was finally sold for 167 thousand dollars, so your estimation is quite good
Mhm, I know this auction house and their auctions very well. They usually sell only rare and expensive coins. But you may sell your coin (if it's still for sale) for much less in US. Polish coins sold at this auction house are much more expensive than on similar auctions in US, the only one similar market is German (our neighbour), esp. at Kuenker auctions. So I invite you to Poland, the 3rd auction of this seller will took place in Warsaw on 21th of October this year
One more thing... These days dollar had horrible exchange rate, today 460 thousands Polish zlotys is equal to about 135 thousands dollars, but it's still quite nice price. Btw, do you still have this coin for sale?
Szanowny kolego to właśnie moja moneta została sprzedana na linkowanej aukcji. Więcej takich niestety nie mam...
Nie spodziewałem się TAKIEGO zbiegu okoliczności Moje gratulacje, poza zbiorami H-Cz. nie mam nawet pomysłu gdzie można by szukać takiej dwudukatówki. No i po raz kolejny widzę, że jak zrobią zdjęcia u Niemczyka, to moneta idzie za dobre pieniądze... Ja siedzę w dukatach niderlandzkich, ale jak przejdę do polskich, to pewnie Twoja była dwukatówka będzie jedynym dostępnym na zdjęciu egzemplarzem. Pozdrawiam. For collectors from US: I found nice link for Polish coins http://polishcoincatalogue.com/index2.php?cat=0000PL59100&page=Coin_Details&details_menu=no&Submit2=More+about+0000PL59100 Sometimes prices are "a little bit" higher, like here in subject: est. $42,000, received $146,000
W opisie aukcji napisano gdzie szukać pozostałych - tak jak wspomniałeś H. CZ. czyli Kraków (niedawno wydali album "100 Rarytasów numizmatycznych..." i są tam zdjęcia ich egzemplarza i 99 innych ciekawych numizmatów), ponadto Narodowe w Warszawie, Wiedeń i Ermitaż. Ponadto polecam katalog 4 kolekcji "Wielkie kolekcje monet polskich" z lat 1904-1932. Ciekawa rzecz, nagromadzenie skarbów w jednym zbiorze wprost niewiarygodne. W porównaniu ze sprzedanymi tam monetami, ostatnie aukcje Niemczyka i 50 WCN wyglądają bardzo skromnie. Pozdrawiam również, nie myślałem że jeszcze ktoś się tu wpisze
Dzięki za informację, na wystawie w MNK byłem, żal patrzeć tylko na zabezpieczenie wielodukatówek i innych skarbów w płytach plexi przy pomocy GWOŹDZI. Zgroza. Poza tym całkiem przyzwoita wystawa, tyle że niewiele monet pokazali... Ze starymi aukcjami już chyba tak jest. Porównując w dukatach holenderskich obecne jakiekolwiek i przedwojenne (a nawet powojenne do lat 70) u Schulmana w Holandii - różnica jest kolosalna. Teraz rarytasy siedzą raczej w muzeach i w kolekcjach, które nie zmieniają właściciela. A we wskazane książki chętnie się zaopatrzę! Z kolekcjonerskim pozdrowieniem - Darek
