Trading at coin shows

I'm just saying. You've gotta have some nerve to ask someone to leave for trading on the floor. This is supposed to be a fun social event as well right? What are we generic tourists who are raked in by single file lines and spit out on the other end? I can see the frustration if it was disturbing business such as lingering around somones table.. but trading? Once again I believe that if this is true the promoters of the show are catering to the wishes and demands of the dealers only and not the overall numismatic community. This sounds selfish to me.

 

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Like others have said, deal with other collectors outside of coin shows. But, many people deal and trade with dealers at shows. In fact, I'd have to say at least half of the collector to dealer business I've seen at coin shows are trades. They're still making their money and you're getting what you want. Nothing wrong with that.
Guy

 

Wow the principal here seems obvious. You have people taking time out of their day to physically drive to a show with money in hand ready to buy your product, but stipulations are in place which state that trading collector to collector is bad etiquette.. Or furthermore that you can be kicked out of a show for trading? This does not make sense to me in a number of ways. The obvious which (only an opinion) is that there is nothing nefarious about trading coins with fellow collectors in a secure, coin friendly environment. Secondly, if you can wrap your mind around the very conservative nature of any such rule and accept it… I still don’t believe that it would make economic sense for the dealers. Wouldn’t you want to create an environment that would bring in as many customers as possible? I personally as a customer will take it as a personal insult if I’m ever removed from a coin show for trading with other customers. I have a feeling that in wake of the internet there is a progression towards a more liberal numismatic community; not one contorted by any ruling authority.

 

I get what you're saying, Jason, but think of it this way....You worked in a pawn shop. Say you are there trying to conduct business. In walks some guy and starts offering to buy the junk your customers are in trying to sell. Sure, maybe those customers might use that money to buy from you, but most probably won't. In the meantime, this shmoe is taking money out of your pocket and using your store which you pay rent for, to do so. But hey, it's a free country with a free market, right, so you let him do this day in and day out. Then his buddies start showing up doing it and soon they set up shop in your shop, rent free, and soon you have just a trickle of your normal business because these free-loaders are taking advantage of a location they know people will seek out to sell what they buy. Soon, you go out of business and everyone, you, the free-loaders, and the customers lose.
Guy

 

I tend to agree with you in principle; it seems to me a coin show should encourage interest in the hobby, not discourage it. But I think you're making a big hypothetical deal out of an otherwise simple matter of etiquette. If you want to trade with a fellow collector, move away from the table area—whether outside or to a different part of the building (i.e., not the area rented for the show). No dealer can stop you from doing this and why would they?

However, if you constantly infringe upon their space and business, they have a right to feel professionally slighted. Wouldn't you?

 

I've never been told to leave a show for "horse trading" as it was referred to when I was introduced to the practice. Most shows I've been to have tables set up for people to sit and rest, chat, trade, whatever. (No need to do it clogging up space in front of a dealer's table.) How could any dealer say they support the hobby and yet discourage or attempt to prohibit any part of it? Apparently I've been only to enjoyable, friendly coin shows

If I didn't read it here, it was in a major publication (NN or CW) but somewhere there was a story about a picker who went to a show and bought a proof set with a "no S dime" in it. What year set is that again? He bought the set for normal set price and and sold it to another dealer at the same show for $10,000.

The point of that little story is that if a line is drawn for any one facet of the hobby, more are sure to follow fast.

Funny, I always considered a coin show to be more of a social gathering of people interested in the same hobby, where smart coin dealers set up a table in order to 'get the word out' that they are there as well as talk with people and conduct some business. Not just merely a glorified numismatic flea market.

 

Here is my two cent piece.

If I was in charge of a coin show, I would not mind a one time transaction.

If a customer bumped into another, and saw they had something they wanted, and bought it, no biggie.

Now, if a customer was standing near a dealer, and another customer brought in a coin to sell, the dealer offers $300, but then the customer goes "That's nuts! I would give you $600 for it", then I would probably ask them to leave.

Or, if a customer came in and set up, without telling anyone, and not paying the "fee" then I would ask them to leave.

Basically, I would allow a casual, one-time transaction between customers. It's not really going to hurt the dealer any.

The dealers are there to make money, another customer buying/selling full scale, without paying any kind of charge, is basically a "mooch".

It would be no different, if someone sat in a chair next to the bakery department in wal-mart, selling cookies/donuts/etc cheaper than walmart is.

 

I don't know I suppose this is kind of a sensitive subject. First of all I believe everyone should benefit from the show not just the dealers. If you are away from the tables I do not see a problem with it. Furthermore how do you enforce this? What if I simply want to look at a fellow collectors coins? Am I not allowed to do that? What a shame that would be.

The pawnshop scenario is a little different. I'm assuming that my boss would ask the patrons to discuss business outside of the store, but this is not quite the same scenario. This would be more in line with (Seller) "How much will you give me for this Peace Dollar." (Dealer) " I could give you $150" (3rd party) "Pssst.. I'll give you $200 for that."

I'm not sure why I was slightly caught off guard by this thread, but I believe it boils down to my affirmation that the buying community should be calling the shots and not the sellers.


Once again the other thing that confuses me is that I don't believe it makes economic sense to discourage such activity? Sure we have our local coinclubs, but what other venue do you have where you can meet people from out of state and trade coins? Openly allowing trading (even selling without a table) should have the effect of increasing growth. Yes even selling in my opinion. The more people you can get to come in that door should eventually equate to more profit to the ones with the tables.


This might be out of leftfield but when thinking about opportunity cost I give this scenario. Do you believe that it would be economically viable for a Casino to deny a gentleman entrance because he walks in with a mountain dew bottle in his hand? Stating that he must throw outside beverages away before entering the Casino? Some things just don't make sense to me sorry.

 

You're painting quite a rosy scenario! Many dealers do a lot of shows, often driving to adjacent states, getting up at 3:30 AM to do so. They do this in the rain and snow, weekend after weekend. They enjoy talking shop, but in my experience it's usually with repeat customers with whom they've established a relationship (because they're repeat customers.) Bottom line is, dealers are there to make money—to justify all those miles and crummy hotels.

 

"Trading on the floor"... this is where you are wrong, Jason. If you want to "trade" (which I take to encompass buying, selling, and trading), just take it somewhere else.

While this may be a "fun social event" for you and many collectors, this is business time for most dealers.

Economic growth for whom? If anyone and everyone can openly sell, why would any dealer pay for a table? If no one pays to do business, then who pays for the venue? How many that are strictly collectors would be willing to pay very high admission fees just to spend their money while others conduct business for free? I understand its a passion thing for you, but think this through...

Maybe this example would make more sense... lets say you started the metals business and after all the investment, work, etc, someone sets up in a truck out in front of your shop offering to pay more and sell for less - something they can do since their overhead is next to nothing... they are not paying to do business while you are. Would this be okay, especially since for some buying and selling metals is fun? Would you be okay with you because of the technical "economic growth"? Of course not since it would hurt your business, just as anyone and everyone selling on the bourse floor would for table renting dealers.

 

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Try walking into any concert with a drink and see what happens.:devil:

Edit to add this happens at ball games now also come to think of it.

 

The only time I traded was when I has agreed to make a trade with someone beforehand, we met at the show (in the food area), and we traded.

If someone brings things to sell/trade and shows a dealer the items I feel they are off limits until they step away from that dealer. If you ask to see their items after they have left that table I don't see a problem. I would make sure that any viewing/discussion of items happens away from any dealer tables so you are not taking away from their ability to do business.

 

Apparently the profit margins for a typical dealer cannot be as wide as I have imagined post show. Otherwise nobody would raise a finger about people trading.

 

I fail to see your point here. BTW I am not a dealer just a fellow collector that happens to sell a few things now and then but I sell mostly online as we have very few shows up here in Washington.

 

Let's put it this way.

Dealers at our local show pay $100 to have a table from which they can deal; customers get in free.

Do you really think that $100 just covers the use of the table? That, if you're wanting to deal but not wanting to use a table, you should be able to do it for free?

If a dealer brings his own table, should he get in for free?

Dealers at a show pay a certain amount of overhead to be there. In exchange, I'm comfortable with them enjoying some advantages when it comes to trading.

 

Trading takes place all the time--both between dealer and dealer, and dealer to collector, as well as collector to collector. I agree with the other posters that collector to collector trades should be discreet, as this is the dealers' workplace, and they have expenses connected with coin shows. However, I have traded in all three situations--between me and the dealer, me and another collector (we went across the street and had coffee to handle the trade, not on the bourse floor). I have also seen dealers trade quite a bit, at the opening and even during the shows.

 

I could see coin shows disintigrating into a mob (orderly, but still a mob) of individual collectors milling about with coins in their hands calling out for trades. An ugly scene

 

I like the picture this idea brought to mind.

Also, I do not believe I've been to a show where admission was free. It's been usually $4-$8 pp wherever I've gone.

As far as the 'rosy picture' I described before, I'm kind of shocked that it was taken that way. It's from personal experience that that picture came. Kinda gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside about my local shows (few and far between as they are) if this sort of scene is as uncommon as all that. Even the couple in St Paul I've attended were full of very friendly dealers who would've gladly shot the bull with me longer, even despite the fact that I was a brand new face to them (most of them), if my girlfriend and kids hadn't peeled me away.

 

I'm thinking about setting up a table on the sidewalk just outside the next coin show. In addition to selling coins, I'll also have lemonaid and cookies.

 

Huh. I've never encountered one that charged admission. Admittedly, I don't get to many, and those I have attended outside of Raleigh were pretty tiny. But the Raleigh show next weekend has sold out 120 tables, and it never charges admission.

Funny thing -- the Raleigh show is at the State Fairgrounds, right next to the flea-market area, where there are always a few people with coins. I'll have to see if anyone else has the same idea.