I like Cleaned Coins and you should to thread

what?

 

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Just so you know, you're starting to think like Detecto

 

If a coin has been dipped, even a so-called proper dipping, it has been cleaned, end of story. Any and all cleaning, whether harsh or otherwise, alters the surface of a coin.

If a coin has been cleaned, no matter by what method, it should be identified as such when it is sold. That's just basic honesty. It should be up to the individual buyer to decide what amount of cleaning is acceptable.

 

I only sold one coin on Ebay, but I disclosed I dipped it in alcohol and distilled water, which didn't really deter a couple bidders (I was a new seller).

 

I applaud your ethical conduct in that transaction.

 

I am commenting here to WARN those who might get any bright ideas about playing with chemicals and coins.
I watched that video up there ( POST #73 http://www.cointalk.com/t205352-2/#post1430862 ) where the copper cent is disolved in acid and I really doubt that the guy had a respirator on.
Dumb as a bag of hammers if he didn't. That gas was pretty intense in the video. So I looked it up and as I suspected ...

Copper is oxidized by concentrated nitric acid, HNO[SUB]3[/SUB], to produce Cu[SUP]2+[/SUP] ions; the nitric acid is reduced to nitrogen dioxide,
a :rollureyes: poisonous :rolling: brown gas with an irritating odor.

and

!!! Hazards !!!
Nitric acid is extremely corrosive. Handle with care.
The nitrogen dioxide produced in this reaction is poisonous. This reaction must be done in a fume hood!

Here is also a coin related article

A ​

case of acute nitrogen dioxide poisoning​

This is a link to a pdf file http://pmj.bmj.com/content/61/719/819.full.pdf and it is specific about cleaning coins.

 

Sort of like Smog

 

This is, of course, false. If a coin has been cleaned it has been cleaned. If a coin is cleaned it is cleaned. This is a simple tautology. It remains true even if the coin can fool people and be falsely passed off a not cleaned.

 

I used to go to a candy store on Smithtown Blvd
in Bohrmia L.I. But that was in 1962.

 

If a tree falls in the woods and there is no one around, is there a sound. I repeat my allegation that "If you cannot tell a coin has been cleaned, it has not been cleaned. If you can tell it has been cleaned, it has been cleaned." If the coin is anomolous - blast white, but with significant wear, it probably has been cleaned (OK, Doug, harshly cleaned). If the coin is blast white with no wear, why can't it be naturally uncirculated. If a coin has clean fields with no heavy scratching and with toning around the devices, how would you know if it had been cleaned?

 

I think that if we are reducing it to an epistemological discussion, then we have really come off the rails. This is not an issue of a tree falling in the forest with no one around to hear it. There is an objective reality where the coin is either cleaned or it isn't.

By your logic, if you can successfully pass off a counterfeit coin, that means it's authentic.

 

Of course, there's basic faulty logic in taking this statement literally. I think the better way to say it is:

"If you cannot tell whether a coin has been cleaned, then it doesn't matter if it was cleaned."

And doe's it really matter either way? If you like a coin, and are educated enough to properly evaluate and deduce a value, then buy it. If not, then don't. Everyone has different tastes, and are after different things. If cleaning issues are important to you, then that will be a discriminating factor. If not, then it will only be a factor in determining price.

 

Hello

You can really tell a con was cleaned, almost always

~Cherd

 

Looking at the copper-nickle example, the best one we own once was unfortunately cleaned, like many coins of this period, but it has Mint State details. Here you can see that the tail feathers are very sharp and defined, meaning it is an excellent strike, and that the feathers on the breast of the coin are also clear with no evidence of wear. The realistic aeronomic musculature of the wing is visiable and present, a breath taking design and example, in my opinion
The Wreath on the backside is also a really nice design, not like the simple wheat stacks most people are familiar with in the old Lincoln Cents. The vareity of fruits, nuts and leaves recall a time when it was America's argiculture which drove the economy, nicely layed out and craved into the brass. Cleaned or not, it is the relief of the reverse wreath that makes this coin special with the details intact of the nuts, corn, and oak leafs. The nice brown tone makes one wonder why anyone would attempt to clean such a coin. The strike is exception for the year, with both sides being complete, even in the feathering of the obverse breast and the reverse corn stalks. Here is a detailed tif image of the reverse and this one is of the Obverse, both in the slab. The coin glows softly in the light

 

The analogy of a tree falling in the woods is actually very apt. Lets use the example of the FE cent our friend from Brooklyn posted. He says it was cleaned. Who knows this for sure? Is it apparent from the pictures? Can you really tell? If he claimed this cent was not cleaned, how many would dispute his word? Now he sells it and the person he sells it to decides to sell it and doesn't disclose the fact that it was cleaned because he forgot he was told that. Is this fraud. I know that there are many mis-represented and bogus coins sold and there is often blame to be assigned. If you find a 1909-s VDB roll hunting, do you represent it as having been cleaned if you don't clean it?

 

Maybe the nice, even, brown tone exists due to the cleaning. The thing might have been a mottled dark turd before, who knows? All I know is that I like that coin, and that to me is what's important.

I agree with most of what you said, except for this. The tree-sound example represents a cause and effect, whereas the cleaned coin example represents an actual state. The completely analogous tree example would be:

"If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around, does a tree fall in the woods?"

 

Originally Posted by mrbrklyn
The nice brown tone makes one wonder why anyone would attempt to clean such a coin.





Maybe the nice, even, brown tone exists due to the cleaning. The thing might have been a mottled dark turd before, who knows? All I know is that I like that coin, and that to me is what's important.


Originally Posted by Kentucky
The analogy of a tree falling in the woods is actually very apt.





I agree with most of what you said, except for this. The tree-sound example represents a cause and effect, whereas the cleaned coin example represents an actual state. The completely analogous tree example would be:

"If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around, does a tree fall in the woods?"


I will agree, but what I was getting at was more of a definition (thanks for the cleaned vs harshly cleaned tags Doug). If a tree falls in the woods, it causes compression waves to happen. If you define noise as the compression waves, there is a noise. If you define a noise as the interaction of a compression wave with an eardrum, then it requires an eardrum to be present to be considered a noise. The main thing is in a coin - if you like it and it is attractive to you,you buy it, if not, you don't. As an absolute, it is difficult to REALLY know a coin has been cleaned (even read harshly cleaned in some cases) unless you did it. I would like to think there is a non-harmful way to increase the attractiveness of a coin without harming the coin or the sensibilities of coin purists I respect.