Questionable Authenticity = Fake? (PCGS)

I think along the same lines. As long as I believe the coin to be original, then it fulfills my purposes and I get enjoyment from owning it. However, if and when I find out that it is a fake, I'd be @#$%ing @#$%ed off!!!!

 

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The Bank officers at the local BoA would differ with you on that; the officer told me yesterday they had some $100 bills that were so good ($1 bills with $100 graphicked in) that they were nearly fooled. He said the counterfeit detector picked it up on the reverse not the obverse, though.

What happens if one of the big boys certify a counterfeit? Lots of trouble and egg over their faces. They don't want to take the chance.

 

If the fake was proveyed to Hofman you might be rich.

 

OK FWIW, and I'm an amature, I see lightening around the S mint mark and where the mint mark would be on the other. That would flag it.

 

How easily some forget (or do not realize) that when submitting, you are not only paying for an opinion.. (if certified) you are also getting a guarantee. Those who are so quick to dismiss really should try putting their money where their mouth is sometime. After all, this is exactly what the TPG does. Just because the OP did not get his definitive answer (regardless of the reason), a service was provided. Proir to submission, it goes to reason that he believed the coins to be genuine. Now that they have been examined by PCGS, this has changed... a paid service provided. If the OP wishes to do so and/or doubts the original opinion, there is nothing stopping him from sending to to NGC, ANACS, ICG, or even PCGS again.

With all due respect, Hull, I think most would take the opinion of PCGS over that of this forum any day. In regards to "tough" grading here, please remember that there is a big difference between being conservative and acting conservative, plus we mustn't forget that even those who know what they are doing only have photos to go on. However, one will most likely get a decent range after weeding out the guesses. It is often unfortunate that some will shoot in the dark instead of simply stating that they do not know. Ruben said this quite well.....

 

FWIW, and these are not exactly my area, both of those are beyond question fakes IMO. The 1877 has a strong N, and funky denticles on both sides. The 09-S also has funky rims/denticles both sides also.

 

Thanks for confirming the 1877 fake reverse with the bold N. I tried to point that out way back in post #22, but I guess most aren't familiar with what a "shallow N" is. Good eye on the 09-S!

 

I am not sure the 77 is a fake. Proofs had strong Ns.
It could be a slightly worn proof.

ANACS would be your best bet if you want to know if it is genuine.

 

Very true on the proof, but I would have hoped that the TPG could have determined that, if they're doing their job! If there's any question left I'd send it to Rick Snow at Eagle Eye for his opinion.

 

Aside from the fact that does not explain the denticles, a proof with that poor a strike? Not in my imagination.

 

This is another issue. Why would they send a coin back labeled "Questionable" without a description of what exactly is questionable about the coin. It wouldn't take much effort to type up a paragraph describing their reasoning behind the determination. Instead, we are left to guess.

 

You have a point but I suppose that is a considerable expense.

 

But the explanation includes complete forgery and modification. It would be nice to be made aware of which determination was made. How long does it take to write out "this coin is a contemporary counterfeit" or "the S was added post mint". If the customers were educated enough to make the determination themselves, then they wouldn't have sent the coin to the TPG in the first place. The coin grader's expertise is ultimately what is being paid for. If their opinion is not made available, then where's the value?

 

You have a good point, but it is what it is. You can be angry with them for that and have a gripe.

 

FWIW, they could have a series of form letters and click A, B or C, what have you.

 

At one time INS used a check off sheet for grading.
They had about 20 items on it if I remember right, even
clash marks. Something like that could be used to detail
why a coin is suspect.

 

Besides, they just saved 18 seconds by not grading
it. :surly:

 

I have news for you folks PCGS has NEVER labeled a coin counterfeit. Even on my bodybags from the first generation slabs there is no selection for Counterfeit. But there is a check off box for Questionable Authenticity.

My ANACS body bags have the Not genuine opinion written out on the first BB, a check box for Not a US Mint issue on the second, and a printed out Not Genuine for the third.

I don't have much in NGC bodybags but up through at least the 12th generation holder they were still using a Not Genuine check off box. At some point though they did change because on their last BB's they do use the Questionable Authenticity label.

ICG has used Questionable Authenticity since their beginning as well.

Is it just me or is there the top of a S peeking out at the top of the damage on the reverse of the "1877" indian head? I suspect they used the same reverse die for both coins and then "damaged" the 77 to remove the S.

By the way, anyone have any bodybags they don't want? Trying to track bodybags is not easy because most people don't want to admit they got them. They toss the BB and sell the coin raw instead