I have a 1922-S peace dollar, which looks like its in superb condition. I'm no coin grader, but I think it appears to be at least MS-65. According the current edition of "Coin Prices" magazine, its worth $2,300 in MS-65. I showed it to a coin dealer. He quickly looked at it, and then said "That coin's been cleaned. I'll give ya ten bucks for it." Of course, I said no. Well, I've been wondering about it ever since. I'd like to know if he was just trying to get over on me, or if the coin really has been cleaned. SO, how can you tell? I'd appreciate any wisdom. Thanks. -Adam
I have decided that the best way to learn what a cleaned coin looks like is get yourself a practice coin and clean away. Something like a Franklin or a 1964 Kennedy. After you clean half of it, you will see the signs right away and save yourself the heartache... Both of these coins were cleaned, they are too bright, too shiny, no cartwheel. Cleaned and retoned.... They should be more like this...
The most obvious way is to look for hairlines. Tilt the coin all around, and you may see lots of very tiny scratches. Other times, cleaning just gives a certain look. After you have seen enough of the coins with this look, you start to recognize them right away. Sorry this wasn't more helpful.
Unfortunately there's no specofoc formula for identifying cleaned coins. Like the judge once said about porn, "I know it when I see it!" That's how it'll have to be for you. Look at a whole_bunch of cleaned coins, both those cleaned mechanically and chemically, and eventually you'll get a feel for what looks right and what doesn't.
So the toning on the edges but not on the high points is normal, and having toning that goes over tthe edges and onto the high points evenly is probably faked?
Yikes!! Toning is a whole different animal than cleaning. A cleaned coin can still tone naturally, it's just that the original "skin" is gone forever from the coin. Toning helps disguise the aweful look, but it is always there. There are all different kinds of toning. Envelope, album, end roll, etc. they all look different. There is no way to blanket statement toning and whether or not it is AT or NT>
Oh heavens NO!! I bought that coin from my dealer at a pretty good discount because of the cleaning. Even cleaned, it's still a key date. I have a '64 that I use to try to show others what whizzing and polishing look like. I really believe that grabbing a junk coin and playing with it to see what happens is priceless.
I'm a big believer in grabbing key date cleaned coins when they are available at a good discount. I think that in many cases, modern collectors are over-discounting cleaned coins that would other wise have substantial numismatic value. Unfortunately, most dealers seem to offer small discounts when selling cleaned coins, but insist that the key date cleaned coin is virtually worthless when buying it. Someday, this may change. [Note: this is only my personal opinion which is shared by practically nobody. ]
One very good indicator is dirt in the crevices of the legend and date, or dark outlines to those characters, while the fields are clear.
Thanks for all the tips people. My dad's camera and computer are both junk. So I haven't gotten a good pic of the coin in question yet. Any tips on coin photography? Sorry, I ask ALOT of questions. Well, from your tips, and more examination of my coin, I'm leaning towards cleaned. The cartwheel is there, but faintly compared to my other unc silver dollars. Thanks for the advice Becky. I happen to have several rolls of '64 Kennedy's. So I'm gonna start expereminting. Also, I'm going to a coin show in the St. Louis area this weekend. So I'll take my coin along and ask some folks with more experience than me.
Its usually obvious when a coin has been cleaned. That peace dollar looks like someone took an eraser to it. Best I can describe it is when the coin has a unatural shine to it with a bland luster. Also if cleaned with a cloth or other abrasive you will see lots of small scratches that look like hairlines going in a general direction. You can almost imagine someone scrubbing the coin in that very direction at one time. Retoned are the hardest to tell and most TPG's will error on the side of caution when it comes to cleaned coins. Dipped coins are a different story. While it removes some of the luster if done right it can actually cause a coin to look better and still be graded. I've seen lots of cleaned coins. The only place around here with coins is a pawnshop guy who deals in them a lot. One of the larger Ebay sellers. He had this one customer who sold him lots of coins and everyone of them the guy cleaned before he sold them. Comparing them to uncleaned coins makes is fairly obvious.
That is something I want to see....a 1964 Peace Dollar....now that it is out in the open when are you going to sell it Speedy
