PCGS Regrade.... They didn't crack the coins out (OGH)???

Hey all,

This is a follow up to this thread;
http://www.cointalk.com/t206577/

I sent in 5 MS64 Morgan Dollars for regrade from OGH holders. There are pictures on the thread above. 4 of them came back the same (MS64) and one actually downgraded to a 63 (the 1889-P, which in my opinion was the cleanest of the lot???)

It didn't really bother me that they were coming back the grades they were until I picked them up from the post office today. They are in the same OGH holders that I sent them out in (save for the regraded 1889-P)... I'm pretty disappointed and feel like my coins might not have gotten a fair shake. There are stickers on the OGH holders with comments about the grade. Here are the comments:

1882: "Some marks but frosty white with good eye appeal" -DH
1882-O: "Mid range 64 original com" - DH (not sure what com is)
1892: "Mid Range 64 a few minor marks white frosty luster" -DH
1902: Some facial marks (minor) but very well struck and a MS66 reverse" -DH (maybe this coin should have at least got 64+???)

One of the holders is pretty foggy, is cracked and has some scratches on it (the 1892), I was hoping for a new holder so I didn't have to look at those anymore... They did refund me $50 ($25 for the downgrade and I'm not sure what the other $25 was for) but I still ended up paying almost $30 per coin after shipping and they didn't even put the coins in new holders? I thought the whole thing was that they crack them out pre-grading so the grader isn't influenced by the previous grade???

Any thoughts? I'm mighty tempted to crack a couple out and include them with my 8-free grades... Just feel they weren't given an unbiased / fair shot. Thoughts?

 

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They refunded money because they downgraded the coin (it's part of their policy) as well as gave me $40 for the difference in value via a check. My understanding of the regrading process is that if it is a PCGS regrade (which it was) they automatically crack out the coins before the grader even sees them. Supposedly this is supposed to prevent a bias by the grader. I don't feel like I got that chance and am a bit disappointed by it.

 

I recall an old thread where the reverse had occurred in that the OGH were exchanged by the new holders , but retained the same grade. ( Can't find it now). The poster was irate because they broke out the OGH which he felt commanded a higher premium and put them into new holders , but the grade stayed the same. If my OGH were going to come back with the same grade, I would prefer them not to crack them out either. Just me. You might ask about a courtesy reholdering for the cracked one, but consider the change in possible value.

I think they thought of this and that is why the notes were attached. I have never had that happen!

Jim

 

I completely understand that and originally was in that thought process as well (as long as OGH holders do in fact increase value, which is an entire other discussion). For these particular coins, I think "net value" of my thoughts is that I am a bit disappointed. I got 15 graded Morgans (all 64's) and these 5 were the ones that really made a difference in value from 64 to 65 (the 1892 is $4500+ book in 65 and about $1000 in 64). If even one of them upgraded, it would have basically paid for the grading in value. And after getting a bit annoyed with the cloudiness, etc... of the 1892 I was getting a bit excited to see them in new CLEAN holders so I can take better pictures, etc...

I know I should be happy that 4 stayed in the OGH, as it MIGHT add a bit to value but I can't help but wonder if they MIGHT have been upgraded (even to a + or something), even just one. The comment on the 1902 having a MS66 reverse makes me think... I know the Obverse carries more weight but I would think that it might help the net grade.

Anyways, I know I might seem a bit spoiled in this situation but I really wanted a "pure" opinion on these as I have seen other 65's (and even 66's) in about the same or worse condition. I could find a handful of them on Heritage right now. I've also seen some 63 or 64's that look better than some 65-66's on Heritage. I know I'm not an experienced grader but we all know that there is some variance from day to day at most TPG's. I know that the grader seeing the MS64 grade certainly didn't HELP the prospect of them getting a bump. Just my thought.

An interesting and unique situation regardless.

 

The cracked holder is the only one I would worry about. The other scratched holders can be cleared up with careful use of plastic scratch remover, without endangering the coin ( don't use on the sealed edge), but even with the '92 it can be protected from environmental damage by keeping in a zip lock bag or similar. If the crack is not right over the coin , I have used CA ( superglue) to seal the crack in a holder someone stepped on. It cures with the moisture in the air within a few minutes.

 

I've had this problem before and it is very fustrating.

Like what can you use?

 

Which problem Ruben? The crack? I use CA ( cyanoacrylate ) "super" glue. It is acrylic based and polymerizes fast enough to not eat through the plastic. If you do use, be careful.

use fastest drying formula. Use smallest orifice to deliver on crack. Do not touch with bare skin or allow it to get to your eyes or moist areas of your skin. Have acetone available in case you glue your fingers together, etc. Get medical assistance if you glue your eye shut , or odd parts of your body.

And Ruben do not be tempted to use it as an inexpensive botox alternative to pull wrinkles tight.

Jim

 

Easier said than done. Ever try to call 911 when your fingers is stuck to your eye lids? In case that happens, run to the corner drug store and talk to your pharmacist. They'll know what to do.

PS - I was taking about slab stratches

 

BTW - I do not suggest using crack even on your smallest orifice, but that is just my opinion.

 

Groucho Marx
If you fall out of that window and break both your legs, don't come running to me.

 

If you wanted them cracked out, you needed to do it yourself or tell them directly to do it -- their default service is what you got...and (please don't take offense, but) the mistake, if there was one, was on you in not understanding their services.

That said, I think that you got a nice bonus in that David Hall sent you his comments on each one of them.

You do stand some chance of them grading higher if you crack them, but you also lose the OGH mystique which is valuable to some, and remember they could also come back lower too.

It's a tough call. I would likely do nothing unless I had a great deal of skill in PCGS grading and was willing to submit multiple times to get what I wanted out of the coin grade-wise.

Hope this helps...Mike

p.s. get some PlastX and polish those cloudy OGHs. they will clean up nice, I'll bet.

 

Unless something has changed since November of 2011, that statement is incorrect. I did a lot of research on the subject before sending them in. I had to find this thread again but Don Willis himself responded to the OP's question;

http://forums.collectors.com/messag...eadid=835748&highlight_key=y&keyword1=regrade

His response;

If for some reason they have changed their policy regarding regrades, I did not see anything about it when I did research prior to sending them in. I'm not offended by your statement, I just want to make sure our information is correct one way or the other. Thanks.

 

Interesting. Thanks for your response. Now I'm a bit confused...

Did you call PCGS customer service to ask about the apparent discrepancy? I'd be curious to hear what they say, and wonder if you didn't choose the wrong service. To wit...

How did you fill out the form (i.e. which service did you request)? I thought grade guarantee coins didn't get cracked out, but of course I could be wrong (as your post above suggests).

Thanks again...Mike

 

That must have been a sight? I mean you running through the streets with your fingers glued to your eyelids and all. lmao

 

I'd horsewhip you if I had a horse!

 

I'm not getting down on you; however, that is the risk you take when resubmitting for a re-grade.

It could have been worse and all of the coins downgraded.

 

say the magic word and get a rubber detecto

 

Nooo

I'm the pharmacist in the drug store and YOU are running all over the streets with your fingers glues to you eyelids and expect me to do something about it. It happens every day to me.