Is this sovereign real?

I ordered a George V sovereign from a reputable London dealer.

It came today and I'm a bit concerned about it - a few things don't sit well with me but, on the other hand, I haven't seen or handled many sovereigns - I only have a few and they are a lot more modern - so I don't know if my concerns are legit or if I'm worrying unnecessarily

Would really appreciate comments from more experienced sovereign handlers

My concerns are:
- I bought a basic George V sovereign but appear to have received an Ottawa minted one - my book says only 106,000 of these were minted and its 'scarce'. Not a rare category but would dealers normally issue it as a bog std priced sovereign?

- The stamping seems low quality in that the obverse is set deeply - its very low compared to the rim of the coin. In contrast the reverse is a lot higher - it almost feels as though the horse is higher than the rim - in fact I think it is. Were this age/mint of coins just poorly stamped?

- Look the colouring of the gold- especially on the obverse. It looks speckled as though its plated and the plating is wearing off - its not consistent. Is this plating or spots from bad cleaning/wear?

- I'm not sure if my eyes are playing tricks are if the picture of the reverse differs slightly from the one in my book - round the front of hooves and dragon. This may well just be me

- Btw, it was also described as 'excellent quality'. Is it? I know its nearly 100 years old but its a bit nicked round the edges and the faces are a bit scratched. Any thoughts?


Really appreciate any comments

 

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You would need to give us the weigh and diameter.
Your concerns: (correct me please if I`m wrong)
1. The seller might not have sorted the sovereigns (bought so many of them, no need to sort), your "bog standard price" is probably the melt price for it or slightly above it.
2. I have noticed the quality of strike in British coins at the start of the century was bad, especially on the head side, but yours doesn`t look too bad.
3. To establish whether it`s plated we would need a weight of the coin, if it`s a different metal with plating it will weight different to a normal gold sovereign.
4. I will check that up for you later. (don`t have too much time right now sorry)

Hope this helps
-Owen

 

Also welcome to the forum!

 

Thank you for your swift reply.

I have a set of digital scales - they only weigh to 0.1 of a gram. It comes up as 8.0 - like my other coins

Diameter is same as my book and other sovs

The thickness looks about right esp vs my 1958 sov. Looks ever so slightly thicker (by a whisker) than my very modern ones. Is that usual - just a bit of ageing/rounding/quality of stamping - related to that depth of obverse issue I mentioned?

I'm sure I'm being paranoid and just not used to seeing old sovereigns but I'd hate to keep looking at it (I do enjoy looking at them!) and always worrying about it - it would spoil the fun

Added a photo of that thickness diff - the sov in question sandwiched between a 2002 and a 2012. Is it what looks like a slight buckle that accounts for the thickness diff?
I need to try to look closer

 

I`d say it sounds ok,
But maybe someone who knows more about these will come by soon.

Do you collect British coins in general or just the sovereigns?

 

Thanks for your help and the welcome.
I'm sure it is just me being paranoid/not understanding the age and stamping. It's not as though I got it off ebay!

Over the last couple of years I've just bought a sovereign here and there. I also have a stash of 50% silver threepenny bits. I did get the 'bits' off ebay

If asked I'd probably say I bought them to have a tiny gold investment. But really I enjoy having them and looking at them all Fagin-like once the sun sets and the curtains are shut. My plan is just to buy one or two whenever I have a bit of cash spare but I can already feel that I'm likely to buy them faster than planned. They're just so cute!!

How about you?

 

I`d say you would like the old full crowns like the victorian ones (same design as the sovereign but bigger and silver!)
I`m collecting most of the British denominations, I have only been collecting for about 4 months but I have most of the basic ones like all pennies from 1860-1967 with about 6 gaps, and most of the non silver coins from the 30`s to 1967.

If you would want to show off your coins I would recommend this thread (for your non American coins):
http://www.cointalk.com/t165399-61/

Have a flick through it, plenty of good coins!

 

Yes, I've seen some of those on ebay. I might buy one or two and see. They seem to go for about £20 or so which feels like a lot to pay for worn silver. I've got quite a lot of worn silver coins and half wonder if I should have bothered. Except for the bits - I'll get more of those now and then - they're very cute

Sounds like you're collecting in general rather than looking for gold or silver content too. Such a lot to choose from!

 

What sort of worn silver would you not be sure about?
Would they be like a completely worn looking like a blank or worn details with parts of the coin blank?
There is a big interest in worn coins for filling in dates, I sold some poor (0.500) sixpences recently on ebay and got back at twice the melt.
If you want me to look at some of these just PM me.

 

Just about 200x6d , 1000 3d, 30 florins and about the same in shillings. All 50% silver
I think there are quite a wide range of dates from 1921 - 1947. All bought in various lots of ebay, varying quality but better than scrap (theyre not that worn)
If you're missing a coin in particular I can have a sift through and see if it jumps out.

 

if you bought this coin from a reputable dealer in the uk they would invariably be member of the british numismatic trades association BNTA by being members their trading standards are high and beyond doubt. that said the soveriegn appears to be genuine to me, and if you are going to collect british coins then please don't hesitate to contact me for help and advice.

 

Thanks for your reply

I had another scoot round the internet this morning. Found some official pics of 1918 ottawa sovs which looked like they had the same 'deep' stamping on the obverse and almost raised reverse.

I think I'm just showing my lack of experience with the older sovs

Cheers guys

 

1918 Gold Sovereign

According to the SPINK standard catalog of British coins, in 1918, no sovereigns were minted in the UK itself.
SPINK 2010 reports sovereigns of following mints:
- Ottawa Mint, Canada: mint mark C (VF Bullion Value, EF £165, UNC £225)
- Bombay Mint, India: mint mark I (VF Bullion value, EF £165, UNC £225)
- Melbourne Mint, Australia: mint mark M (EF Bullion value, UNC £185)
- Perth Mint, Australia: mint mark P (EF Bullion value, UNC £195)
- Sydney Mint, Australia: mint mark S (EF Bullion value, UNC £175)

Knowing that a sovereign should contain 7,315 grams of pure gold, the present bullion value actually is approximately £234 (£32 for 1 gram) . Therefore I have pulled the data from the world coin price guide (see below). This gives $369.43 as bullion value of this type of pieces)
- Ottawa Mint, Canada: mint mark C (MS60: bullion value, MS63 $750)
- Bombay Mint, India: mint mark I (XF: bullion value, MS60: $500)
- Melbourne Mint, Australia: mint mark M (bullion value)
- Perth Mint, Australia: mint mark P (bullion value)
- Sydney Mint, Australia: mint mark S (bullion value)

 

Yes, Mr Marsh's book says 106,000 Ottawa ones were minted. I feel kinda lucky to have one. Nice to add a bit of spice

 

hey guys, it's been a long time since I've posted on this forum - but I'm back!

Rob, your sov looks genuine to me. The grade is good too, maybe Mint State, but AU, at the very least. If you paid bullion for it, you've done well!

I wouldn't worry about the thickness of the rims. It can vary from coin to coin, particularly on the pre-QEII issues. If the strike pressure was higher-than-usual when the coin was struck, the rims may appear taller and the edges thicker. This isn't unusual.

On the whole, the coin looks ok.

 

Not just is it real, sounds like I've bagged a nice coin too. By luck I should add.
I bought a "George V" sov - after that it was up to the dealer what he sent me. As I said earlier, I quite like having a foreign minted coin - bit different. I quite like these older sovs - think I'll focus on them when I add to my collection. My only others are QEIIs (yawn!)

Thanks for your comments

 

It was the first thing I put on my new sovereign balance!

 

Ha, the balance looks really cool
This was something alot of shops would have had 100+ years ago, a fairly important part of British trade
Wonderful find!!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-1918...UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item2a1f63e548


According to this ebay seller, a 1918 Canada mint sov is rare and worth £500. I'm not sure I'd go that far!

 

It looks genuine to me. Maybe you just got a good deal. I don't see or read anything in your post that I would be concerned about. Sovereigns are plentiful, enjoy.