NGC or PCGS: The Ultimate Poll

For the record, I have never submitted a coin to any TPG ever :thumb:

You said nobody twisted your arm, yet in your previous post, #152, you stated

Could you not have walked away and searched for something more reasonably priced, or even another seller more willing to negotiate or haggle?


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OMG, if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black!

 

Good point Lance,

I find the level of opposition to third party grading on this forum to be hysterical. Why don't we see that same level of opposition espoused on the NGC or PCGS forums? And while we search for the answer to that question, let's consider the relative numismatic experience of each forum's members. Only then can we fully understand the constant "monday morning quarterbacking" displayed towards people who actually grade coins for a living on this forum.

Paul

 

Haggle? Back when I was a teenager? Did you do much haggling as a teenager collecting coins? I doubt it. Okay, if you have never submitted coins to a TPG, then how can you possibly know whether they are accurate or not, without personal experience. You take others' word as gospel, or let your own experiences speak for you??? I think you have a prejudice against TPGs that is not substantiated by way of experience.

 

I did much haggling when I was a YN and on into my adult years pre-TPG. It was how it was done for many.

How I can know TPGs grades are not accurate is neither NGC nor PCGS use a uniform set of standards as a guide to grading coins.

Case in point:

Uncirculated Franklin Halves with the potential of having FBL. One service only looks at the bottom set of lines for the designation, and the other service looks at both sets of lines. Not consistent, nor uniform IMO.

Another supportive argument as to the accuracy of TPG grading is the realistic fact that grading is subjective, and can vary from person to person, as well as TPG to TPG.

I take no one's word as gospel on anything. I am quite capable of forming my own opinions, and have been doing so for a long time.

In so far as your assessment that I am prejudiced against TPGs, not true at all. Again as I stated before in this discussion with you, people are entitled to throw their money away as they choose, while others are entitled to be more thrifty in their spending. It's all about preference. I choose to collect coins for the joy of collecting. Potential, appreciated value is of no concern to me, and neither is some fancy holder and labeled opinion from a service. I don't sell coins, and certainly do not buy for the purpose of a quick flip either.

 

No, you're not prejudiced against TPGs, but you say that people are "entitled to throw away their money." That is an obviously prejudicial statement--it directly affirms that people who buy TPG coins are "throwing away their money." Moreover, why assume that somebody is making a "quick flip" (once again, a prejudgement that anybody that sells coins is just interested in a "quick profit"). I have sold collections for many reasons, and a quick easy buck was never the reason. See, you're assuming big time.

 

Not assuming at all, and my statements are in general terms, and meanings with no assumptions whatsoever.

 

Beg to differ. "Throwing your money away" is not a general term, and does make assumptions. It implies that the person who buys and likes that kind of coin is wasting money--that is a pretty emotionally charged statement.

 

Not at all.

There are many ways people throw money away.

People who gamble in casinos hoping for a high return, or buy used motor vehicles that should be junked and think they have a great car, etc.

 

Once again, I would NOT equate those two with buying premium coins. Throwing one's money away implies poor financial judgement, and I don't believe buying slabbed coins by PCGS or NGC poor financial judgement.

 

Lol, seriously? I was laughing pretty hard until I read further and saw you are serious. "Why don't we see that same level of opposition espoused on the NGC or PCGS forums?", um, because they are the PCGS and NGC forums???????

Why would you not assume, if they are posting on the forums of the TPG graders, that they are favorable to TPG? How many people would post on Jewish forums praising pork sandwiches? Do you seriously believe the location, (and the severe abilities of the host at those sites to delete and and all posts they wish), that people would honestly debate the pros and cons of slabbing to begin with?

IDC what you think about my skills, abilities, or knowledge Paul, but I find it insulting for you to label cointalk as ignorant and less knowledgable as other boards. Yes, we have a lot of beginners here too, but also a lot of people with multiple decades in the hobby, being associated with it long before any TPG slabbed their first coin. I have been a collector for 35 years Paul, and many here have collected for 50 or more. Why are those on your PCGS and NGC forums more knowledgable than us?

Is it simply because they agree with you, so therefor must be more knowledgable and smarter than us who are too stupid to see you are right?

 

As I understand it, the PCGS forum is ruled by a dictator who bans members for no legitimate reason, so it stands to reason the members there would NOT speak freely about the TPGs at that forum at least for fear of the hammer striking their account down permanently.

Ask Mark Feld :thumb:

 

If you were a member of either of those forums you would understand why I think the members of those forums are more knowledgeable collectors. There are plenty of people on both forums who prefer raw coins but they are able to do so while simultaneously recognizing the benefits that third party grading affords. Your point about censorship is well taken but only applies to PCGS. On the NGC forum, you are free to say whatever you want and offer as much criticism as you can muster towards the TPG's.

You claim that Cointalk has a lot of members with multiple decades of experience. I agree, but remember I am a regular poster on all of the forums. What I can tell you is that most of the experienced members who post here also belong to at least one of the TPG forums. I say at least one, because many have been banned from PCGS. So you see, the experience does not belong solely to Cointalk, it is shared. You are one of the very few experienced members who belongs to Cointalk but not NGC or PCGS. Why is that? Is it because for the most part, the people here share your views? That door swings both ways Chris.

I post on NGC & PCGS forums, but I also post here despite the fact that my opinions are constantly challenged. The fact is that I don't mind a good debate and I believe that true education can only be obtained when all sides of the story are told. You can find it insulting that I label Cointalk as less knowledgeable, but that doesn't make it untrue. Instead of allowing my comment to tick you off, why don't you join those forums, experience them for yourself, and form your own impression.

I love coins, all coins. I have a high ranking registry set of certified Jefferson Nickels but that does not inhibit me from enjoying my Dansco collection of raw Jeffersons. Why does the fact that you prefer raw coins necessitate your apparent disdain for TPG's?

 

Time to invoke Godwin's law. For those unfamiliar with it, click on the link below.

The popular corollary to Godwin's law, for Internet discussion boards, says that once a comparison is made to Hitler or Nazis, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned it automatically loses whatever was being debated. Just sayin'.
Lance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

I have read NGC forums. I simply do not have the energy to participate on many forums at once. I belong to a few, but rarely post save here. I acknowledge many boards have some stronger detailed knowledge in areas, like Forum is stronger in ancients than here. I just like the atmosphere of CT.

Fair points Paul. Btw I do own a few slabs I have not cracked, US coins I simply left in there. I have posted many times the authenticity service of a slab is valuable, especially for certain dates. IF they created a system of tracking that prevented resubmission I would feel better about the grades of TPGers, as I feel its resubmissions that basically guarantee a lowest common denominator grade outcome currently.

 

Acknowledged, changed, and I apologize. I overstepped, not intentionally but it was simply the first on the top of my head.

 

I feel the need to make one more point. Just because the membership might be less knowledgeable doesn't mean that Cointalk is an inferior forum. You are correct, the atmosphere here is better and personally, I find it much easier to navigate this forum. PCGS is horribly antiquated and you can't speak your mind freely. NGC is a good forum, but rarely do you ever get any spirited debate. And while I am often horribly disappointed by many of the threads that I read on this forum, threads like this one more than make up for it.

 

Disagree strongly. The opinions presented here are far from scientific research--they are exactly that--opinions. Someone can have an opinion on anything--the best car to drive, whether blondes or brunettes are prettier, etc. If one has not had direct experience with TPGs, then their input is hearsay IMHO. Furthermore, whether one likes it or not, TPGs employ graders with years of experience and expertise. While one may question the logic of employing their services, if one has not submitted directly, they're relying upon hearsay, and the debate/opinions of others. This isn't a scientifically controlled venture--it is a subjective/gray area, where opinion and fact are often separated widely.