1899 Indian Head with funny second 9

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by lincoln, May 18, 2012.

  1. lincoln

    lincoln Large Member

    Greetings,

    Haven't been by in a while, but I found this cent tonight and was wondering what y'all thought.
    1899 Indian.jpg
    The tail of the second 9 touches the underside of the descended loop. How unusual is this, if at all? It may just be an odd spot of wear. I have few Indian Head cents and no other 1899's to compare.
    Thanks for your thoughts.
     
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  3. cciesielski01

    cciesielski01 Laced Up

    I'd say its just normal die wear and deterioration. I'm not 100% sure but I don't believe there is a 9/8 overdate
     
  4. mackwork

    mackwork Caretaker of old coins & currency

    I don't see any 9/8 varieties listed in the Snow attributions. There are several overdates of all or some digits in the 1889 cents - 1899/1899, 18/18, etc. There are several 9/9 varieties, and that nub in the second nine is one indicator of a Snow S-12, but there are a lot of 9s that look like that - as said above it may just be die deterioration. Can't tell for sure from that picture.
     
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Dunno, my guess would be a die chip occurred right there.
     
  6. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    I don't see anything other than Post Mint wear and damage. Copper is a relatively soft metal and a little early damage can cause some 'flow' of copper. It is often seen on worn early dates where spacing doesn't seem quite right, but die breaks confirm attribution of a known variety. After further wear, the traces of this early damage may completely disappear.

    While this is not definative, it is more likely than actual die wear unless other coins with the same characteristics can be found. The same oddness on a higher grade coin could reduce the chances of such early PMD and increase the probability of it being die related.

    But you have the coin in hand. Just be honest with yourself about PMD possibilities.
     
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    If you look at his image blown up to full size, right where the loops touch, you can see a raised bump. Which is exactly what would happen if it were a die chip.

    Damage or wear should result in a depression or a flattened out spot, not a raised bump.
     
  8. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    A raised area should be associated with a gouge or corrosion if it's PMD. Lacking that, I agree.
     
  9. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    Well the 18 almost look like they were recut, but not sure about that(leaning towards not). The second 9 looks normal to me for the 1899 - seems like most of them look closed anyway. Add some wear and sometimes you have to take a second look at the date. Probably just what Doug mentioned.
     
  10. mackwork

    mackwork Caretaker of old coins & currency

    I noticed that on the 18 too, but the picture isn't good enough to confirm that. I also see a lot of IHC 9s that look like that, and not necessarily an attribution/variety.
     
  11. lkeigwin

    lkeigwin Well-Known Member

    I'm leaning toward PMD. It wouldn't take much of a hit to flatten and fill that tiny gap. But a die chip or erosion would explain it too.
    Lance.

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    [​IMG]
     
  12. lincoln

    lincoln Large Member

    Thanks for the responses. I wasn't supposing it was anything rare, valuable, bizarre, or anything else; just looking for possible explanations.
    Thanks again.
     
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