Walker - what does she grade?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by gbroke, May 7, 2012.

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  1. gbroke

    gbroke Naturally Toned

    Walkers are such a beautiful design. I know many agree.
    So how does this one grade? Is it even MS?

    I think I always assumed if the lines on her skirt, or the breast feathers weren't prominent, that it was circulated.
    After seeing some graded walkers though, I now believe that is not the case. That is more of how solid of a strike it is.
    Is that correct?

    What do you think?
    -greg
    [​IMG]
     
    gbroke, May 7, 2012
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Based on the pics looks like some very light wear on the eagle's leg. I see none on the obv.
     
    GDJMSP, May 7, 2012
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  4. gbroke

    gbroke Naturally Toned

    Oh yeah Doug. I didn't even notice that. So that is probably the high point on the reverse, therefore the first place to look for circulation marks?
     
    gbroke, May 7, 2012
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  5. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    I don't know if she's circulated. Could be a strike issue, as those coins had a pretty high profile (not high relief, but high profile) of the devices. I'd say a 63.
     
    Morgandude11, May 7, 2012
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  6. Melonsmash3r

    Melonsmash3r Coin Hoarder

    This is a challenge because it's definitely MS but you cant tell it's exact, but it's around MS 65.
     
    Melonsmash3r, May 7, 2012
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  7. AnkurJ

    AnkurJ New Member

    Ms64?
     
    AnkurJ, May 7, 2012
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  8. TexasTwister

    TexasTwister Member

    Walkers are notoriously weakly struck! Your coin seems to have most, if not all, of its original luster and nice eye appeal (which of course is in the eye of the beholder). Because the contact marks seem moderate in nature and without having the coin in hand, or bigger photos, I would guess around MS63. Nice coin. I love Walkers!
     
    TexasTwister, May 7, 2012
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  9. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    I don't know Doug. it looks to me like it might just be a soft strike. These coins are so over dipped, i hate them. I don't know why it is that Walker fans love bright and shiney halves.
     
    mrbrklyn, May 7, 2012
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  10. silverfool

    silverfool Active Member

    I'll go with a 64 also. i don't think it's wear on the eagles leg. it's a strike thing. but a sharp strike does figure into the grade. at least it used to a few years ago.
     
    silverfool, May 8, 2012
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  11. AdamL

    AdamL Well-Known Member

    This is why grading Walkers is so tricky. I'm torn between wear and weak strike. But I think I'm going with weak strike. 64
     
    AdamL, May 8, 2012
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  12. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    Hey Adam... What's cooking? Have you been MIA or I just didn't notice?
     
    mrbrklyn, May 8, 2012
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  13. snapsalot

    snapsalot Member

    Nice coin G MS64 to me
     
    snapsalot, May 8, 2012
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  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator


    I agree, the coin does have a bit of a weak strike. But as I have tried to explain many times there is a subtle difference between the color and look of a weakly struck area and the color and look of an area with wear. This coin is a good example of being able to see that if you look closely.

    Look at the pic I have cropped. The turquoise arrows point to the portion of the leg (the front half) that is weakly struck but has no wear. See how it is silvery colored and has a kind of pseudo luster to it but is not as lustrous as other areas that are well struck ? And see how it has a kind of rough or bumpy texture ?

    Well, when the metal is flowing and trying to fill an area of the die, it kind of bubbles up from below sort of like lava looks like it's bubbling up from below, pushing through the surrounding material, when you've seen pictures of a volcano. And because that flowing metal never actually meets and touches the surface of the die (it stops short of that thus creating the weakly struck area) it stays kind of rough and bumpy instead of being smoothed out when it flows against the surface of the die. And it only gets a like half luster instead of a full luster. Look at the other leg, see how the tops of the feathers are smooth and have full luster ? And see the difference in color from the other leg feathers ? The weakly struck portion is just a shade darker.

    Now look at the points indicated by the red arrows. See how they are just another shade darker than the weakly struck portion ? And see how they are smooth on the tops instead of having that rougher texture ? They are smooth because they have rubbed against something, smoothing them out. And they are darker because the half luster has been broken by that rubbing. You can see a bit of the same effect on the breast feathers in the a few spots.

    Like I said the differences in color and texture are subtle and hard to see. But once you know what those differences are and how they look, it becomes much easier to see them when you look at a coin. And on this coin the wear is very light and could be easily missed, unless you look very closely.
     

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    GDJMSP, May 8, 2012
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  15. BUncirculated

    BUncirculated Well-Known Member

    Noticeable wear on the eagle's leg, can't see any other wear elsewhere really.

    This could go as high as 65, but I think for me 64 fits it nicely.
     
    BUncirculated, May 8, 2012
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  16. AdamL

    AdamL Well-Known Member

    You just didn't notice :)
     
    AdamL, May 8, 2012
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  17. brg5658

    brg5658 Well-Known Member

    Either there is wear or there isn't. "Wear" in the normal sense of the word (as in circulation wear) precludes an MS grade for a coin.

    However, despite Doug's flowery and humorous story about "half luster" I believe this is an UNC coin. The spot in question is the most common place for a Walker to have weakness and residual bag marks left on the surface from an incompletely struck planchet (similar to Jefferson's cheek/jaw line on the Jefferson Nickel). The hokey about a "different" shade of gray is just that -- while the pictures are very high quality, you simply can't assess such things without rotating a coin under a light (in hand). I could see this coin grade MS64 no questions asked as long as there are no hairlines from cleaning in the obverse fields. Just my 2 cents.
     
    brg5658, May 8, 2012
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  18. AdamL

    AdamL Well-Known Member

    This thread is a reminder that grading is so subjective, it could drive a man crazy.
     
    AdamL, May 8, 2012
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  19. longnine009

    longnine009 Darwin has to eat too. Supporter

    Especially from images. There's a line of discoloration running
    from the bottom of Miss Liberty's drapes right up the leg to her breast.
    What is that? It looks too dark to be light wear or rub.
    I guess it's some issue with light or shadow or whatever.
    And if it is, why did it happen in that area?
     
    longnine009, May 9, 2012
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  20. longnine009

    longnine009 Darwin has to eat too. Supporter

    Similar threads:

    My photo grading has no grading.

    How would a CIA photo analyst grade
    this unistrike?
     
    longnine009, May 9, 2012
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  21. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    The real problem is that Walkers take a great deal of expertise to grade. There are several types of coins that are particulary hard to grade. Off the top of my head at the head of the line is Washington Quarters, Walkers, and inclussive gold eagles.

    Ruben
     
    mrbrklyn, May 9, 2012
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