I am looking at this coin on ebay , I am confused about it though, i have emailed the seller already, but would like some info from any members here, the paper that is inside the capsul, is light colored in the middle it has USGS, on the top it says United States Grading Service, any and all information on this grading service would be very helpfull especially rating, will have my wife come on and view this post while i'm at work, the auction ends soon, thank you.
These are "do it yourself" slabs. They can be purchased from "Coin World". You just print up your own lable, assign a grade to the coin, and put it inside the holder. I don't think there is a market premium for this type of slab. As with any coin, it should be purchased on it's own individual merits, without regards to what type of plastic holder it is in. Learning to recognize quality, and collectibility takes time, but in the end it's time well spent.
Ahhhh, I see I see, thank you so very much Jody, I didn't think I had ever heard of a grading service by the name of USGS, thank you very much for saving me quite a bit of money, I really didn't think that this coin for auction was a ms-70 Cam, especialliy since pcgs didn't have a listing for this paticular coin ( because from what I read, they haven't graded any such ) Which leads me to believe someoen is gonna get suckered.
Pennycase, Just so there's no confusion about where I stand on third party grading, let me make that clear. In my opinion, there are only three reasons for anyone to pay the extra money for a slabbed coin. Either the buyer doesn't know enough about coins to recognize the condition of them, and doesn't want to take the time to learn, or the buyer sees coin collecting as some sort of competition in which he believes he has outdone his fellow collectors by obtaining the highest graded coins, or the buyer believes that high grade slabs are a wise investment. Personally, I don't buy any of that. If I see a coin that I am interested in, I examine it to see if there're any problems. If it seems like what I'm looking for I consider the person I'm buying it from. Are they known for being a scammer, or do they have a good reputation? Then I consider the asking price. Is this coin worth the price to me? Also, let me say that there are many fine folks that collect slabbed coins. This is how they choose to enjoy their hobby, and it is not my intention to knock them. I'm just saying that it doesn't work for me. I was happy with the old system, where you sent your coin to the A.N.A. to have it authenticated.
Not to take away from your general point, but I believe there's a fourth reason: authentication. I know quite a bit about grading and spotting fakes, but I'm not an expert. And having recently been in the market for 1877 and 1914-D cents, there was no way I was going to put down that kind of money without some professional assurance of authenticity even if I do know most of the markers for diagnosing the authenticity of these particular dates.
It's been said many times here - but I guess it needs said again. Unless you really know what you are doing - there are 4 and only 4 grading companies that should be trusted - NGC - PCGS - ANACS - ICG ! All of these companies have excellent records when it comes to accuracy regarding authenticity. In regard to accuracy of grade - that is open to debate.
An excellent point. I should have made myself clear. Authentication is highly recommended in cases of possible alterations or counterfeiting. Also, coins of very high value are good candidates for authentication.
I decided not to bid on the coin, I know about coins, and how to store them, how to tell the grades and everything, but, I really don't see myself spending a lot of money on something i cannot see at that exact moment, and the seller emailed me saying there were no returns, as is, and he is selling it for someone else, nooooo thank ya...
Plus, if you want the look you can just order the Coin World Standard or Premier holders and slab them yourself. I have done this with my Morgans so I can nusmismatically fiddle with them without fear of doing something to the coin. The plastic is near to meaningless except for the reasons outlined about. Learn all you can, buy what you like - to each their own.
IMO, and it doesn't count for much to anyone but me, the sellers that use those generic slabs and pretend the coins has been professionally graded are questionable. Some of them walk a very fine line with the truth. I see them from time to time and can tell that the coins are not what it is claimed; me, the novice collector. In situations where the seller claims that it has a serial number attached, is just more of the dung he is spreading. What good does his personal serial numbering system do you? How does that increase the value? That is just more of the dung to try to make you think it is graded. Personally, I stay away from the self slabbed coins. Unless, I can tell by the photograph that the coin is good, and IF the seller has a return policy and great feedback ratings. YMMV.
I use the CW holders to have a more consistent presentation with my slabbed key dates. I agree that they're being used deceptively (not fraudulently, though, unless they claim some accepted professional certification), and if I sell any of these coins I'd either put them in a 2x2 and sell them in the 2x2 or else I'd take a picture showing just the coin, not the holder.
I purchased this coin off ebay with the generic slabs and had the coin professionally graded. 1901-S $5G MS-63
For me, a fifth reason to buy the coin slabbed is to make it easier to resell at full value in case I die. If my kids take a coin into a shop that is unslabbed, the dealer may significantly undergrade the coin and they may not be able to get a fair price since they are not collectors. If the coin is in a PCGS slab that says MS64 on it, they have a better chance of a fair deal. To protect the value of my collection for my kids, any coin I buy with significant numismatic value must be slabbed. Also, I seem to recall another thread where the merits and demerits of USGS was discussed, but I can't locate it.
May I ask what you consider "significant numismatic value"? Is it a price limit or a grade limit? Sorry, but I am just curious.
For me it's a price limit. Some pretty high grade coins aren't worth a lot of money and I don't worry about them.
We had a simular thread asking about USGS about a month ago. The thread ended "locked". I had never heard of "USGS" EXCEPT for COIN TALK, I have still never heard of "USGS". My opinion at the time was, after reading the comments on the thread , USGS was being "Talked Up". There are another 10-15 "Nobody EVER heard of them" so called grading companies. As Jody526 remarked, ANYBODY can buy Coin World slab look-a-like holders and "grade" whatever they wish. I am sure by now, I could do an ebay search of USGS and get hundreds of hits. Some do not like any Third Party Graders (TPG`s). I can`t speak to the modern MS69-MS70 (and Proofs) contraversy. What the eff difference (really) between a 69 or 70. Not so with older hi-grade coins. TPG`s have become a fact of life (like it or not). In Morgan Dollars (my specialty, although I have others), the price difference from an MS64 to an MS65 in a particular date can be several thousands of dollars. Extreme examples exist such an 1893-S Morgan in AU58 and one in MS60. The price difference is measured in the tens of thousands of dollars. Raw, ungraded coins can be a steal. I steal raw coins all the time. BECAUSE I KNOW HOW TO GRADE. Because I know how to grade, no one can ever get over on me. We have all been there back in the day. Remember when your dealer sold you a "GEM BU" coin and then a year or so later, when the coin market was up, and you tried to sell it back to him? Of course it is now only an AU (or "slider") Maybe only an XF. My point is Don`t Buy any coin from these no name grading sevices. If it isn`t PCGS, NGS, or ANACS, and to a lesser extent PCI, or ICG, then RUN AWAY. There is a reason why no name graded coins sell for half or a tenth of the price of the majors. You can buy non-graded coins. I have to say you REALLY,REALLY must have to know the market and the grading of the coins in your interest. NEVER buy any really expensive coin based on the grade someone else gives it. NEVER pay greysheet for these FAKE TPG`s like USCG, SGS, CCGS, NNI, NNC, or any other BS grader. You must learn to grade if you spend more than $2.00 for any coin.
I thought they were referring to the same company also BZ, but after looking into it they are different TPG's significantly different at that lol Look alike sound alike is an issue we deal with in the hospital with patient names and medications. Look slike it has drifted to coins too.
Hey SapN!!! Maybe I have the no name TPG`s mixed up. It really doesn`t matter, as they are no name TPG`s. Way too many rookie, and even mid level collectors, put too much weight on TPG grades. It seems that they equate ANY TPG grade with the highest book values in the Red Book, Or Coin Universe. Everyone that has more than $10 worth of coins, and comes to Coin Talk to talk about their coins needs to learn how to grade. TPG`s do have their place in high end items. Fact of Life nowadays. These fake TPG`s hurt the newbies. I can tell stories about the major TPG`s. I have a higher end PCGS MS63 Morgan, that is barely an MS61. I have an ANACS MS62PL that looks way better than most PCGS or NGC MS63 and some 64`s that I own. Point is, many Major TPG`s don`t always get it right. The minors seldom do. I like to educate the newbies that TPG is important nowadays, BUT, even the big guys get it wrong, and these no-names are almost always wishful thinking, or an outright scam.
