My new 1798 Draped Bust

I am not understanding the OP when talking about cracking out being a gray area. I looked at the bust dollar. The Stacks photo shows exactly what his ebay posting shows. His description even says that it has marks on the obverse.

If you have a bit of buyers remorse for the coin or simply are not happy with it, by all means return the coin. That is the purpose of the fourteen day return policy. I routinely get coins on appraisal from dealers. Sometimes I buy the coins, sometimes I don't. But I don't throw the dealer under the bus if I don't like the coin, I just return it.

 

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Of course. Sorry to go off topic.

 

I am specifically talking about cracking out problem coins and selling them, not including the "problem" I did not even mention the coin I purchased as an example. This has nothing to do with buyers remorse. If you look at the links I posted, specifically the 1800 Draped Bust, you will see the coin was cracked out then cleaned and listed with out mentioning it. I do not agree with that practice so I am choosing not to purchase coins from him. As I said before, this is my opinion and it fine with me if you disagree.

 

I can see your point, but I would just return the coin if I didn't like it. The coin was a problem coin to begin with.

 

I agree, and I would not have bid on that one anyhow. That said, I disagree with the practice, so I will take my business elsewhere. I had no intention of bashing the seller, I was asked for my reason and I gave it. I also do not plan on leaving negative feedback as long as the 14 day return policy is honored. It's just not my cup of tea, everyone else is free to drink all they want.

 

I disagree with the practice of cleaning coins in general, but sometimes it is called for. I actually think the 1800...GULP...looks better than before. Please don't tell anyone that I admitted to that.

 

While I respect your opinion on the situation, it is mine that this is not at all a gray area. It is nothing more than intentional fraud. Yes.. there are details/gennied coins that should not be in such holders, but it does not appear that this seller is simply trying to right a wrong. He is knowingly buying problem coins and trying to sell for straight money. Is this not the same as misrepresenting, altering, At-ing, or otherwise doctoring a coin as a means to take advantage of a buyer? I believe it is. Look at the second coin in your example.. the eBay seller refers to the obverse graffiti as "marks" even though it is obvious they were intentionally made and there is no doubt that he knows it. This is noting more than fluff intended to deceive. Intentional deception is intentional deception... no gray area about it.

This was your purchase and how you wish to handle the feedback situation is none of my business. The above reflects only my observations and feelings on the matter, and in no way was meant as a personal attack.

I firmly believe that this forum would greatly benefit from having more people such as yourself who understand what CAC is, does, and means. Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but the bashing CAC takes on this forum, especially from the ill-informed and regardless of their respective opinions, is unfortunate. CAC is a market accepted and proven service that should be given the same level of respect awarded the TPGs.


My apologies to Mr. Hinton for again going off subject.

 

I am not ill-informed and I know exactly what CAC does and why in other markets it is illegal and defined as fraud.

Just saying...

There two sides to every issue, the right side and the wrong side.

 

Update: While I originally suspected that the seller was intentionally trying to deceive buyers, I thought I would give him the benefit of asking:

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Dear apogeellc,

I was wondering if it was still in the PCGS holder or if you removed it. If you did remove it could you send me the label?

His Response:
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Hi Joseph,
The coin shipped yesterday. I only sent the coin as I do not have a PCGS holder or label to go with it. Thanks,
Brian

If you notice, he completely avoided the question by just stating he did not have a holder or label to go with it. Not mentioning anything about removing it himself. I think it would be quite obvious by my question that I already had prior knowledge that it was in a holder, so why continue to put up a façade? I think this seller is in the game to deceive.
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For what it's worth, I don't think the 1800 coin in your links looks to have been cleaned- differences in lighting can explain the color differences. i do however disagree with cracking our problem coins and putting them back on the market with out disclosing that they have already been body bagged/details/genuine graded.

 

Touchy, touchy.... did I say anything about or even imply that I was speaking about you? No, so why rush to defend yourself? Maybe you should clarify exactly how CAC could be illegal, "defined as fraud" and what "other markets" instead of making vague statements that could easily be misconstrued by those here who are not as "informed" as yourself.

And of course you are on the "right" side, I am sure. Too bad the market has proven differently in the four years since the links you posted. If you do not like CAC or what they do, don't buy their coins. This is a simple concept, isn't it? Just saying....

 

You did make a genral statement about a category of individuals that would include me.

I don't really wish to re-argue this, but i provided the original thread for reference. If you have any questions about what was said, you can, as a best practice, post them to that thread and I'll likely answer a specific point.

Ruben

 

The market has behaved exactly as predicted.

 

Are you certain of authenticity. So many chinese fakes comming out now.

 

I have not seen the coin in hand but I am abou 99.999% sure it is real.