http://www.coinweek.com/market-repo...better-resources-on-coin-values-and-mintages/ by Louis Golino for CoinWeek There has been some interesting discussion on this web site recently about the need for more accurate pricing information about U.S. coins. For example, Vic Bozarth recently wrote about the Coin Dealer Newsletter (CDN), commonly known as the Greysheet (www.greysheet.com), and said that its data is skewed by the inclusion of too many sales of lower quality coins. Others, such as Mark Ferguson, Laura Sperber, and Doug Winter, have all suggested that the Greysheet, Coin World’s Coin Values Price Guide (www.coinworld.com), and other sources include information that is not accurate about coin values. Mr. Winter recently (http://www.coinweek.com/market-reports/first-quarter-2012-rare-coin-markets-a-quick-recap/) noted how he paid more than $30,000 for a coin which is valued at a fraction of that in Coin World Trends.
I think it's common knowledge that the greysheet bid and ask prices are generalized. I know myself and others who have paid a lot more than bid for certain coins and would do so in a heart beat, but there are also certain coins that I wish I could sell at bid...
It's the same problem it always has been, some people just don't realize or perhaps they refuse to recognize that there is no fixed value for any given coin in any given grade. Instead there is a very wide range of values for any given coin in any given grade. The people and dealers who deal in high end coins complain that the price guide values, and that includes CDN, are too low. Yet other people look at the prices that these high end coins bring and claim that their coin in the same grade is worth that much too. Yet other people wanting to buy a coin from a high end dealer complain that the dealer's asking price is way too high because of the price of a low end coin in the same grade. These are all some of the exact same issues that we had before the TPGs even existed. And of course it was the claim of the TPGs that these issues would go away if people used their services. Well guess what ? They didn't go away. And they will never go away with the system we have on place. TPGs cannot price coins because not all 64's (or use any grade you choose) are equal in value to every other 64. A given coin in 64 might be worth $300. But another of the exact same coins graded 64, by the same TPG, can be worth $600, maybe more. And you don't solve the problem by saying that $600 64 is really a 65, simply because it is worth $600. The TPGs can grade the coins just fine. But they need to recognize and establish that grades are static, that they do not change. And that can only be done by having a fixed and established, published, set of grading standards. And those standards must be adhered to at all times. And then the market, and nothing else, will determine the price or value of those coins. And people, collectors and dealers alike, have to realize and recognize that there is no set value for any given coin in any given grade. But instead that there is a wide range of values for that coin. And if price guides wish to actually be of any use, then they need to list that range of values for a given coin in a given grade instead of just one set price. That is exactly why realized auction prices, like those you can find on Heritage, are the best bet that a collector has of determining how much a coin he wants is actually worth. That's because when the collector look at those realized auction prices - he sees the varied range of values for a given coin in a given grade. Coins are not stocks where every share is worth exactly the same amount of money. Neither are coins commodities where every given unit is worth exactly the same amount of money. Every single coin, even those graded exactly the same by the same TPG, are 100% unique. Every single coin has its own unique attributes, its own unique flaws and blemishes. Every single coin is worth a different amount of money - not the same amount of money. And that amount is determined by the market and nothing else, based on those unique flaws and attributes. Will things ever change ? I doubt it. People don't like it when they have to work and study to know something. They're too lazy, they want to have some book that they can grab, look it up, and say this coin is worth this much. Well, that isn't how it works. And it's never gonna work that way because every coin is unique.
I think it really just boils down to, or should at least for the most part, a coin's value is really only what the buyer is willing to pay for it. If one collector feels paying $600 for a coin in a 64 grade is worth it to have in their collection, then other's shouldn't really chastise that person for overpaying as those doing the chastising may not understand the worth to the person who paid $600 for that coin. I agree with Doug's statement concerning the claims of the TPGs saying the issues would go away if collectors subscribe to and use their service. The issues still exist, and show no signs of disappearing anytime soon, and it's now worse that there is at least one service of verifying what the TPG's label says. I liked the old days of doing coin deals, wherein you the buyer and seller haggle about the price and eventually come to a price both could live with. It wasn't all nickel and diming people because of what's listed in some guide, who's accuracy can easily be challenged by the length of time being written and appearing on store shelves as it relates to increases/decreases of those price listed in the guide.
THAT is an unending cycle that has no theoretical end and is a huge problem. See the previous CAC threads. I think one of the major problems is the idea that this hobby is transformed into an investment vehicle. Ruben
This is what really appealed to me about collecting early copper. For all the faults with EAC grading it does two things well. From what I have seen, there is a fairly consistent agreement about what the sharpness grade of a coin is. Second, the net grading deductions explicitly indicates that not all coins of a certain grade are equal. The net grading EAC does reinforces the point that a grade is mostly relevant as a starting point for negotiating the price. The other nice thing is it costs a fraction of the price to get a label with a grade from a recognized expert
Then you would love ancients as well. This is exactly the same mindset we have. Grade is just a fraction of its value, other considerations being style, centering, etc. Way too much concentration on tiny differences in grades for my liking in US coins. Btw, I always love it how dealers complain about price lists. On one side of their mouth they bad mouth them when they are trying to justify why a coin is worth more than the greysheet, then on the other side of their mouth they will quickly pull out the greysheet if it justifies their pricing. Not talking about any of the fine dealers on CT, but I am sure you can put a face to the types of dealers I am referring to.
