Your favorite numismatical quote

Here is mine

"I wish I can afford to collect coins"

 

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To keep it on topic:

It was once common to portray Liberty, personified in female form, on our coins. Imagine
the return of this figure, grown wiser and reflective after her absence, evoking confidence
that our nation will endure any hardship and meet any challenge. Then, maybe our coins
will once again become respected national symbols.


- Michael Zielinski, NY Times OpEd, 5/21/09

 

" When I'm gone, will your coins smile back at you? "

- Ex-Wife...

"Beware the hobby that eats"

- Benjamin Franklin

 

"It's like we flipped a switch and changed coin collecting forever" From David Hall speaking of the opening of PCGS. I would have to say that truer words have never been spoken of our great hobby.

 

Nope! I've had the book ever since it was released in 1998.

Chris

 

Here's something for the faithful: "...Take the
example of John J. Pittman Jr. While financially
comfortable, he never had substantial
wealth. Yet-over the course of decades of careful
collecting-he was able to build a collection that
was auctioned in 1997 for more than $30 million."
Coin World Almanac Eighth Edition chapter on
Coins as Investments.

 

That's fine, but without details of how much he spent in what years there is simply no way of calculating his ROI. ROI is the judge of whether something is a good investment or not. We simply do not know if instead he bought US bonds if he would have had $60 million instead.

 

It will take too much of your valuable time to find it because the document does not exist. If one of the major TPGs switched a coin, it would completely ruin their credibility and probably put them out of business. Swapping out a coin like yours...worth a few thousand dollars at best, is not worth ruining their multimillion dollar business. No coin is worth that. That is why it has never happened.

Is it possible one of the basement grading companies might have switched a coin...yes. But not the real grading companies.

 

Well it may be worse than that. In order to do an
opportunity cost you have to seperate
collecting pleasure from investment intent.
How do you do that? How do you apportion the
cost of a $200 reference between collection
pleasure and investment? How do you even
quantify pleasure? At the end of the day few
of us have the kind of focus, discipline, nose for
opportunity and Will to act on opportunity
as did Pittman did. But we can dream that we do.

"All men are great in their dreams."
Sigmund Freud

 

I simply do not understand what you guys are refering to. I have the price guides for major series from the 70-80's. If you invested in volume during this time and sold today (yes even post recession) and this was adjusted to inflation rates you would see a profit through and through. I have shown this to be true with the CBH series and can proove it with pretty much any series.

I believe that the problem that you all experienced is that you didn't have acess to the internet to sell your collection, or you simply sold it in bulk to a dealer at a discount. The only other than I can think of is that you released your coins in some form of quantitative easing (slowly) and this money was absorbed in other spending.

Once again I'm looking at the price guides, how can they be wrong?

 

I have never sold a coin, so am just summarizing what I have heard from others. Price guides are just that, "guides" and most buyers do not want to pay what is in the guide. Much of the increases you see are due to silver spot increasing and not a numismatic premium. Time is money. If you factor in your time to sell even on eBay, it significantly cuts into your ROI. I am speaking from a collector standpoint and not the perspective of a dealer or pawn shop. I hope you make a killing in coins, but from what I have heard on this forum, it is not that easy to do.

 

Stocks are an investment because companys generate income. You are buying based on future income / anticipated profits.
Coins and precious metals are speculation because they generate no income. You are buying based on future demand.

Told to me by my Dad who also said "The bears make a little, the bulls make a little, and the pigs get nothing".

 

Look I'm pretty naive here. New to these waters. I have a lot of speculation and gut feelings. I didn't mean to offend anyone who has taken a loss in numismatics. Now there are some series... in particular which I believe will make money in the long run. Here is part of my list (High Quality Toned 65+ Toned Franklins, and Morgans, and Lincoln Cents 66+)(Problem Free Key Dates)(Problem Free Large Cents: The higher the grade the better). (AU+ Problem Free Liberty Seated) (Mid Grade Barber Halves/CBH's) (Certain CC). I also believe that silver bullion prices will increase above 60 dollars. This is just me. Could be completely wrong.

 

I have to agree with this, but would like to add one thing - I am of the opinion that if a collection brings a huge amount, it may be because there is 1 single coin or maybe 2 that outperform their expectations, thereby enabling a win for the person selling the collection. By the same token, what the seller gets from the sale (held by someone else) is significantly less than what the collection sold for, so even if a collection sells at high prices, and taxes and other things come into play, where the person selling may really have not realized the gain.

 

I didn't mean to hijack this thread. I suppose my thoughts were from a very narrow minded point of view, but I cannot rule out that fact that there is great potential to make money in coins/bullion.

 

The only coins I ever made money on where I
know I came ahead was the 1998 JFK/RFK
Mattes. But the irony is I never intended to
make anything from them. The set was only
$59 and I wanted to see what a Matte finish
looked like. Coins I bought in the 80's as
investments lost money. I sold a buff nickel
on ebay around 2004 for $115.50. The number
sounded familar so I spent about two hours
digging around until I found a Postal money
order receipt for $115 to Joe Flynn in 1979.
Oh, the big 50c "profit" wasn't really real after
listing fees and whatever I paid to have it put
in an ANACS Cache holder.

 

If markets were as rational as you or your Dad
investing would be easy. But they are anything
but rational. For example, how often do people
profess their undying faith in TPG in one breath
followed by "buy the coin not the slab." I don't
view it as a good sign that people may not trust
the very thing that imparts the mojo on their
investments.

 

Longnine009, agreed. Just because companies have the potential to make money does not mean they will. Also investment does not = make money. It's just to differentiate vs. speculation.

My Dad is pretty amazing (like all our Dad's) in that he has made money on the market. Unlike his friends and relatives he doesn't go for the kill. He clunks along at 3-10-15% (depending on the climate) and doesn't go for the 1,000% return penny stocks. Right now he buys stocks that pay a dividend. So he makes more than the .5% that banks give out.

Here is my take on profitable coin collecting..... in a simplistic story:

Back in 1970's I thought trade dollars were underpriced. Wanted to buy one but none were available. 30 years later, trade dollars were a good investment.

SO IMHO, the good coins that have profit potential are super hard to find and scooped up by insiders, people at the right place at the right time, and coin dealers. They just aren't available. Even if you know what to buy you can't find it. Just like art. I know what I want but the owners won't sell.

Another story:
Back in the 80's I heard a song I liked on the radio. Called the station and asked who wrote it. Called records stores all over but nobody had it. Finally found a store in a slum who *****ed and moaned but did finally put in a special order for it. 30 years later that CD sells for hundreds of dollars. I didn't buy for an investment, I just liked the songs. But again, the point is, the "good stuff" goes up because you can't buy it, even if you know what to buy.

Plus factor in all your time searching for the good stuff. Time = money. Except you don't with a hobby because it's fun, not work. Problem is everyone else feels the same way so you're competing against all them too.

Just my take on all this..........