Team, Was wondering if another set of eyes could take a look at this VGish 1825 for me. It shows all the diagnostics of an O-109 except for the A-A location. It seems a bit wider than 1/4 mm. Any takers? Thanks Bone
looks like an O-116 to me based on the star 7 to headband position as well as the star 13 touching the curls. Also the motto band is properly aligned for 0-116 and A is slightly higher than M in AMERICA. Here are the Peterson diagnostics (I just can't see this fine of detail without the coin in hand): Obverse (upper curl extends into the headband): and reverse (tine from the upper left portion of the Motto ribbon):
if those diagnostics check out, then it's not quite as nice as the R5 o-109, but it's still and nice R3.
Can someone give me a quick run through on what all these therms like O-116 and R5 o-109 mean? I've gathered that it has something to do with die varities but haven't gotten much else.
In 1967 Al C. Overton wrote a book called "US Early Half Dollar Die Varieties 1794-1936". In that book he listed all the know bust half die varieties (he did quite a good job as fewer than 10 new varieties have been added in the last 3 decades). He called (in the 1970 edition of his book) the different die pairs o-101, o-102, etc for each year; so each o-1xx number represents a different die marriage as assigned by Mr. Overton. As for the R5, R3 part, those are rarity figures. Overton (and bust half collectors as a whole) use the Sheldon Rarity System where: R1 is common (1000+ pieces known) R2 is Slightly uncommon (501-1000 pieces known) R3 is Scarce (201-500 pieces known) R4 is Very Scarce (81-200 pieces known) R5 is Rare (31-80 pieces known) R6 is Very Rare (13-30 pieces known) R7 is Extremely Rare (4-12 pieces known) R8 is Unique or nearly so (1-3 pieces known) I hope that helps.
Where can I find the rarity figures for other coins (like is there a book with all of the varieties of coins and their rarity?) and where can I find a copy of "US Early Half Dollar Die Varieties"?
The forth edition of Overton (now written by his son-in-law Donald Parsley) came out this summer. Retail price is $79.95 and it is the standard reference for Bust half collectors (although I personally prefer "The Ultimate Guide to Attributing Bust half Dollars" By Glenn R. Peterson, M.D.). I got my copy of Overton for $58 shipped from a well know bust half dealer named Stu Keen. If you are interested in a copy then he can be contacted through email at coinsak@juno.com .This is the only purchase I have made with him so far, but he was easy to deal with and I've heard good things about him, so I would feel comfortable dealing with him again. As for rarity figures for other coins, I don't know, I just don't study them as much as I do these. I'd guess that Sheldon and Breen and the other guys who wrote the imortant references on early US coinage also included estimated rarities, but I'm not certain.
Troll, Thanks for your keen eye. It's always trusted. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Coin Dude, check this out. R-1 (Common) = 1,000+ known R-2 (Slightly Uncommon) = 500-1,000 known R-3 (Scarce) = 201-500 known R-4 (Very Scarce) = 81-200 known R-5 (Rare) = 31-80 known R-6 (Very Rare) = 13-30 known R-7 (Extremely Rare) = 4-12 known R-8 (Unique or nearly so) = 1-3 known Fuld rarity scale for token coins: GEORGE FULD RARITY SCALE FOR TOKEN COINS RARITY ESTIMATED NUMBER IN EXISTENCE R - 1 Greater than 5000 (Relatively Common) R - 2 2001 to 5000 R - 3 501 to 2000 R - 4 201 to 500 R - 5 76 to 200 R - 6 21 to 75 R - 7 11 to 20 R - 8 5 to 10 R - 9 2 to 4 R - 10 1 Only The Sheldon Scale R-1 Common R-2 Not So Common R-3 Scarce R-4 Very Scarce (population est at 76-200) R-5 Rare (31-75) R-6 Very Rare (13-30) R-7 Extremely rare (4-12) R-8 Unique or Nearly So (1,2 or 3) The Universal Rarity Scale by Q. David Bowers URS-0 None known URS-1 1 known, unique URS-2 2 known URS-3 3 or 4 known URS-4 5 to 8 known URS-5 9 to 16 known URS-6 17 to 32 known URS-7 33 to 64 known URS-8 65 to 125 known URS-9 126 to 250 known URS-10 251 to 500 known URS-11 501 to 1,000 known URS-12 1,001 to 2,000 known URS-13 2,001 to 4,000 known URS-14 4,001 to 8,000 known URS-15 8,001 to 16,000 known URS-16 16,001 to 32,000 known URS-17 32,001 to 65,000 known URS-18 65,001 to 125,000 known URS-19 125,001 to 250,000 known URS-20 250,001 to 500,000 known From the degrees of Rarity as defined in Scholten in Coins of the Dutch Overseas Territories Scholten Description C Common N Normal S Scarce R Rare RR Very Rare RRR Extremely Rare RRRR Of the utmost rarity Michael Marsh in his book The Gold Sovereign expands the last rarity. Marsh Description R4 15 to 25 examples known R5 9 to 14 examples known R6 4 to 8 examples known R7 Highest rarity known Andrew Pollock in his book US Patterns uses the rarity as, Marsh Description R1 over 1250 examples known R2 500 to 1250 examples known R3 201 to 500 examples known R4 76 to 200 examples known R5 31 to 75 examples known R6 13 to 30 examples known R7 4 to 12 Highest rarity known R8 2 or 3 examples known English Rarity Scale - from The English Silver Coinage from 1649 by Seaby & Rayner. R7 - only 1 or 2 examples known R6 - 3 - 4 R5 - 5 - 10 R4 - 11 - 20 R3 - Extremely Rare R2 - Very Rare R - Rare S - Scarce N - Normal, neither scarce nor common C - Common C2 - Very Common C3 - Extremely Common
Thanks, troll that does help. I'm not a big Bust half collector, I have a couple in my collection, but I like to have well rounded knowledge in all U.S. coins
