Daniel Carr

The links are on page 1, post 5 of this thread

 

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Two things, counterfeit is both a verb and a noun. You are talking about the verb, I am talking about the noun.

My problem under your definition is as long as the people who make them do not sell them as counterfeits, there are no such thing as counterfeits. If you say a person must MAKE a coin and sell it fraudulently, then effectively there are no counterfeits in the US. I am sure most Chinese counterfeiters are not hiding the fact to their buyers. So under your definition none of these coins are counterfeits.

I concentrate on the COIN. Is the COIN deceivingly close enough to fool someone. I do not care what intent someone had ten years ago when the coin was first sold. I care about NOW, about the COIN, and is IT a counterfeit. Seller intent does not matter after it has entered commerce. Are you saying a chinese counterfeit we complain about is ok as long as the manufacturer did not sell it as original? Does it really matter, considering the tremendous harm these are doing to our hobby?

I am not just talking, I really would like someone to look at my post #176 and tell me where the line between a counterfeit and a fantasy coin is. I am seriously confused.

 

So, just for discussion, If I knew ways to tone a coin without possibility of positive identification as such, it would be Ok, if I did this and made them available to all for a price and said on my website, "This is a toned coin produced by the same chemical reactions as in nature, and on a genuine coin. But please do not use this to defraud others ( or something in those words) that should be OK with the majority here? You don't have to buy them yourself of course? How is it different?

 

The difference is, on the toned coin in question, you can not look at the date or other details and readily determine that something has been changed on the coin.

 

Andy Warhol painted a picture of a Campbell's Soup can label, and it has become an icon of modern art.
Some forms of "art" are more about the performance, and the statement made, than the final result.

Boggs drew detailed images of US currency and asked people if they would accept the drawings at face value. The drawing was one aspect of the art, while the attempted passing of the note was the other aspect ("performance art"). Those people who accepted a Boggs note and held on to it would be financuially rewarded today if they were to sell it.

 

Not even if I put a very tiny toned ID mark somewhere?

 

This response is to Daniel Carr. I hope you come back to this post and read this. I really believe you are a first class artist and the product you present is a top quality specimen of things the Mint could have done but did not. I admire your work, and as a Mechanical Engineer, I realize just how much effort goes into creating that first piece. I think the majority of CT members appreciate what you do and like your work. Of course there are a few who have a different opinion and that is entirely all right with me. I just wanted to say I believe what you do is a noble and honest expression of the artistic talent you have, and I hope you continue.
Joe

 

I do not claim legal tender status for them, and I do not advocate their use as legal tender.

 

Thanks,
I make these coins in association with Dave Emslie. Using dies I made, he strikes and distributes most of the ones seen eBay. I also strike some and can provide them on request. Mintage statistics for them are located here: (7th section from top):
http://www.moonlightmint.com/dc-coin_gold_list.htm

 

Thanks for the nice comments.

 

Mr. Carr, I am not much of a great big fan of the overstrikes, but I had fallen in love with you $1k Winged Liberty design. THough I have no intentions of buying one because I cannot afford it, I am in fascination of your interpretation of the Winged Liberty. The overstrikes are kinda bland to me, but some of your original designs are very well put together.

Thought I would put that out there.

~Cannyn

 

Thanks,

FYI, I do have a similar design in copper as a 1-Amero concept coin, and in silver as a 20-Ameros concept coin:

 

Mind my asking, but is the design on the outer ring of the coin incuse?

 

The outer ring is raised, the lettering on it is incuse (except for the "D" mint mark).

 

Great response! Anything can be considered art, just as anything can be considered a collectable. Reproductions can also be quite valuable and appreciated as well. If you like something buy it, if not then don't buy it but let others have the right to enjoy it. TC

 

Is a painted Silver Eagle still legal tender ? What about a gold-plated state quarter - every square millimeter of its surface has been changed - is it still legal tender ? What about a "Hobo" nickel that was extensively re-carved, but still says "United States of America" and "Five Cents" on it ?

How about a 1944-D cent that was altered to look like a "1914-D" cent - is it still legal tender ?

The "letter of the law", as written in 18 USC 33, does appear to apply only to debt notes, not coins:

"Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or
unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank
bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national
banking association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal
Reserve System, with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note,
or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined
under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both."

 

Thanks for the clarification. Any intention on minting another Mexican coin? How about Canadian? A .999 silver Cuauhtemoc should sell pretty fast. I think another one that would sell really good would be a gold Aztec token. Just thowing out some free ideas.