What is this?!?!?!

FWIW - I trust Ardatirion because of his specfic expertise in this area, however, Hobo is an expert on counterfeits. The bottom line is it needs a Specific Gravity done for starters, as Hobo said. That is the measure of the volume of the coin by displaced water, over the weight. As a ratio, Silver alloys have a known specific gravity.

 

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BTW - if there is sodder on it, that will throw off the SG.

 

Oops, I had started writing my post before yours. I was referring to the OP's scratch test. A specific gravity test would be much better.

hockey4019 - "guys at coin shops" are notoriously inept at handling ancient coins. I have a feeling that this is one of those pieces where, if anyone familiar with ancients were to see it in hand, he would instantly know whether it was real or fake.

EDIT: As it is intending to be a bronze coin, a specific gravity test showing silver would decidedly condemn it.

 

The guys at the coin store had no idea what it was.

 

I thought it was something like that.

All the more reason not to let them perform a destructive test on your coin.

 

derailing the thread for a moment... is bradley karoleff adept? i am looking for ancient collectors opinions on him. i know his reputation with american coins, i'm asking about his reputation with ancient ones. you can pm the answer so as not derail this thread too far.

 

No, that is very bad. If the item is silver, it is a modern cast copy probably made to serve as a button or novelty. I'm unclear on how a scratch test will separate silver from other white alloys (pot metal) but this coin should be bronze with a golden color if ancient.

 

I know the guy and I can say he is a nut (in a good way). He is the editor of the John Reich Journal, he has contributed to numerous books (including the Red Book) and he has a column in Coin World (or at least he used to). He knows US coins inside and out (especially early US coins) but I have no idea what his knowledge is regarding ancients.

 

I've never heard of him. (Although a quick google search tells me that he is involved with the John Reich society and EAC). Does he sell any ancient coins?

 

many. he has a case for only ancients in 2 of his stores (he owns 3 stores). dougsmit has never once said anything to suggest anything purchased from him has been fake/counterfeit, but still i've been looking for opinions. i want to know how reputable the only local ancient dealer really is.

 

Unless I missed it.. Why hasn't anyone asked for weight or diameter? That typically helps 75 percent of the time in identifying a modern forgery. Also will determine denomination.

 

They are asking for the specific gravity.

 

Since my name was used here: I have never heard of the gentleman in question but I do not collect modern or US coins and am unaware of the stores where he sells ancients. In ancients 'reputable' generally means that they admit errors when made and back up such errors with lifetime warranty. Unfortunately as a matter of fact, I do not trust the opinion of very many people on a very wide range of coins. Most experts in ancients are somewhat specialized and their opinion on a coin outside their area would be appreciated by me but not necessarily accepted as gospel fact. My feeling about this coin is 99% fake and 1% abused genuine but I am no expert. I have said many times that there are somewhat obviously good coins and very obviously bad with plenty of room in the middle for coins with a question. Many, many obviously bad coins can be spotted in photos but even the best of us should know better than to bet heavily on a coin not seen in hand. Offer to sell the coin to Harlan Berk, David Sear or CNG and see how many show interest. If there is such a thing as a genuine silver version of a sestertius matching this one they might know of it. I don't.

Specific gravity is a totally meaningless number unless you know what the number should be for that exact issue and if that issue is one that employed rather exact tolerances. Not all did. There are fakes of rare coins struck on flans prepared from genuine but common ancient coins. I have seen a Becker fake of a denarius of Nero that weighs exactly (to .01g) what catalogs will tell you his denarii should weigh which only proves that Mr. Becker was smart enough to weigh his product. If you are making $1000 fakes you don't need to be cheap on a $5 chunk of silver. Genuine silver antoniniani of the Gordian III - Philip period vary in weight and alloy by as much as half/double the average. Many ancients were made al marco or intending to make a certain number from a given quantity of metal but not really caring if each individual was exactly the same. Ancients retrieved from burial in certain conditions can show weight reduction from leaching of certain components (like copper) leaving others (silver) in excess proportion. All these 'tests' are tools and worthy ones but none will enable anyone to give a certain answer without years of experience handling thousands of coins.

One more thing: I tend not to trust anyone who bills himself as an expert and no one who claims they can not be fooled.

 

The above is a very good explanation of why the only good way to learn to spot fakes is to look at hundreds and hundreds of coins. What at first blush might look like corrosion may in fact be evidence of casting, and visa versa. And it's also the reason why I don't place complete faith in the weight of a coin - there are so many variables that could effect it.

I can tell you for a fact that CNG would not be interested in buying, and I would be extremely surprised if Berk or Sear were. The coin is just not good enough.