I see our own Mark Feld is in an article linked on coinflation: http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2012/03/27/2285088/merced-coin-collector-has-national.html Nice article about a life long collector. My only question for the group is: If the collector won the competition by correctly grading 12 out of 20 coins presented to him, and everyone else did worst, what is the point of such distinctions in grades? I am not trying to get into TPG issues, or anything similar, but if many or even most collectors cannot grade with such distinction that they would agree even 50% with "professionals", (most contestants got less than 10/20 right), what is the point? In circulated grades most everyone who learns how to grade will agree. I am not talking about grading from photos, but in hand I agree on circulated grades with about every dealer and experienced collector. Therefor, circulated grades are repeatable and learnable by all. However, BU grades are demonstrably not. The winner of a $2500 coin getting 12/20 right kind of proves that. Just wondering what others thought. Chris
I was wondering who it was that won MY coin in the PCGS grading contest. I only got 6 right and was off by one grade on 11 of the others. Thanks for the link.
The outcome of these contests can be due to several things. One is that most people don't know how to grade the way that PCGS grades. Another is some people don't know to grade at all. Yet another possibility is that maybe PCGS was wrong with a given coin, or several coins. Yet another is that maybe some people know how to grade some coins but don't know how to grade other coins. The reality is there are all kinds of possibilities. But who is to say that when it comes right down to it that PCGS was right in the grade that they assigned to the coins ? I've never yet met even 1 experienced collector or dealer who does not agree that the TPGs do make mistakes when it comes to grading. Even the TPGs admit that they make mistakes. Do we just assume that PCGS was right in the grades assigned to the coins used in these contests ? And if they were wrong on any - which ones were they wrong on ? And what about when the coins were graded, does that enter into it ? Some people say that the TPGs don't change their grading standards. But those very same people will also make comments like - they (the TPGs) are being very tight now, or they are loose right now. Well exactly does that mean if it does not mean that there has been a change in grading standards ? The standards either don't change or they do - it can't be both. And what about huge and sudden increases in population numbers of 200-300% for certain grades. If the grading standards didn't change - then why the huge and sudden increase ? There is no other viable explanation - there was a change. To me these contests have 1 purpose - to promote the TPG. The contests are great advertising, they get people involved, they get people talking about the TPG, they help promote more business for the TPG and bring more and new customers to the TPG. And they help increase and solidify the reputation of the TPG in the minds of the people. In short, the contests are good for the TPG. But of course they were always intended to be just that.
The article says that professionals would get 18 out of 20 right, but back when PCGS did their World series of grading the winner in the dealer and former grader category got 16 out of 20 (80%). Average among the former graders was 14 to 15 right. (70 to 75%) Of course in the World Series they had an hour to do 100 coins.
Sounds like a cool contest. These contests could be a good recruitment tool for fresh new talent. My only concern is with the "correct grade." You take a guy who has been collecting for 40 years and has an eye for grading and basically compare his opinion to the opinion of others. Is it the opinion of others? or against a standard?
The coins were in pcgs slabs with no grades on them. I'm assuming they were run through the 3 graders and finalizer.
JCB that has long been the argument against the TPGs in general. In the end, the grade is subjective. PCGS and NGC will guarantee their coins in the market and in that way offer a service beyond the grading itself, but as far as the number that the TPG places on the slab, that too is an opinion.
Yikes! 50% is not very good. I agree with others though that it is not a surprise that opinions vary. The grades are highly subjective, especially when it comes to MS conditions. Personally, I think a MS-62 and a MS-63 Morgan is almost the same thing. A nice 64 and a 65 are almost the same thing. The 66's you can usually tell are a notch above the rest. So it isn't a surprise to me people would be off by one grade in that contest. As someone else mentioned, the grading is probably more accurate for a contest than what they normally do. They may be good but I question if 5 to 10 seconds is enough time to adequately judge coins on a daily basis? The only way to know is to submit the same coin, raw, several times and see what happens. I know it's been done and I know the grade has changed. The process is what it is. Maybe the next endeavor will be a new grading company that will claim to be better than NGC and PCGS and will only accept a limited amount of coins to grade at a given time. Allowing for slower, more thorough grading, which will cause them to be trusted more than what we have now. Then everybody will want to cross over. Wouldn't surprise me to see it happen some day.
Those of you who would like to turn this into a discussion on the efficacy of grading are not taking into account that the coins chosen (a) cover a broad cross-section of US coins rather than a series (e.g. you hand me a large cent and I can do much better than 50%, but hand me a bust dollar and that goes WAY down), and (b) they weren't chosen at random (or because they were easy). Said simply, be careful from reading too much into the results.
