This week's CDN says they are getting calls almost daily from coin dealers who are being warned by their banks that they must immediately give the banks an "AML" (anti-money laundering) plan or have their accounts closed out. Has any one heard of a coin dealer with such a notice? I know several dealers and know of no one who has had problems like this.
Sounds more like a scam to me. Somebody pretending to be somebody that they are not. Get a call like that - hang up the phone. Pick it back and call your bank. You'll know in 5 minutes.
Pardon me, but what is an anti- money laundering plan? These words are perplexing to me.. I have cash tucked away, and sometimes I am afraid to spend it, for fear someone will think I am laundering money? Didn't mean to hijack the thread , but I am curious.
It's a plan that helps catch people who are laundering money. What it comes down to is a form that gets filled out and sent to the govt. when X number of dollars is involved in a cash transaction. Examples - cash a check for $10,000 or more at a bank and you have to fill out a form. Buy more than $2,000 in money orders with cash and a form gets filled out.
Also, Lucy, coin shops are a prime target for money laundryers as it's easy to take cash in and walk out with gold to hold for a time and then convert it back to cash. It happens more than people think. Guy
I guess some people do all kinds of things to cheat.. I just wasn't understanding very well what money laundering really was, nor how it looks. Thank you.
It's real, they've been warning them for a few months now. I forgot the deadline. It must be written & 3rd party reviewed./approved by such & such date or have their business Accts froze. ICTA cracks down on the banks, banks crack down on the mom/pop b&Ms, everyone becomes a "web only" dealer. I guess it's just one more way for them to strong arm people in to buying their gold in paper form.
Actually ICTA is the collectibles organization that is supposed to lobby for and protect the rights of coin dealers and collectors. They charge around $300 a year for membership and then offer some freebies like grading coupons. Some of the grading services do a surcharge on grading fees that goes to the ICTA. To my thinking they are a little heavy-handed in how they "warn" people, and of course, they have the remedy if you have a problem like this. Some clarifications: the "8300" form needs to be filled out on cash transactions over $10K and certain other transactions as the moderator indicated. Compliance has a lot of purposes and with the new regs due to the Patriot Act, you would think the government would have tried to make an example of a few dealers. I have not heard of anyone in particular so prosecuted. Technically money laundering is taking illegal funds and then converting them in ways to avoid detection. A drug dealer goes to a coin dealer and says he/she wants to buy a large quantity of bullion at whatever price the dealer wants to sell. Let's say he buys U.S. eagles and Maple leafs at $125 over spot, what dealer wouldn't want to make that kind of sale for cash? Then sometime down the road the drug dealer wants to get out of the gold or other precious metal, and exits without drawing attention to the authorities. I once had a customer for stump wood removal who paid me in cash without haggling, I later saw he was arrested in a MOB extortion ring, he was caught trying to sell a kilo of cocaine to an undercover FED agent at a college: http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...w4hAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6XQFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3475,4141279 With all the thefts, the authorities also want paper trails so they can do something about the stolen precious metals that the thieves are trying to fence. Probably not likely they will find the real crooks.
Money laundering is about dumping your counterfeit or illegally obtained cash into something of value, that can be traded or resold at a later time for "clean" money. Criminals want to lose the dirty money as fast as possible. I saw some people that were scamming Walmarts by using counterfeit cash to buy high end products. Then they would drive to a different Walmart in a different town with the receipts and get good cash back. Drug dealers could use large amounts of cash to buy rare coins and bullion to sell at a later time. I think this issue is a fine line. The government hates cash and it seems like they always assume illegal activity when it comes to large amounts of cash. I hope the coin shops are not being harrassed but I wouldn't be surprised.
Ok so the banks are leaning on the ICTA, PayPal is also shutting down accts. Read more in the Mar 13th Numismatic News
The company I work for has AML training & tests every year. I know quite a few Dealers who have had the instructor come to their business . This year was the 1st time that I got to take the test online. I get certified by an ex-IRS agent every year. There are also things called SAR reports. They are a nice little part of the Patriot Act I believe. (& thats about all I can say about them) If you would like to read up here is a link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_activity_report http://www.occ.gov/tools-forms/forms/bank-operations/suspicious-activity-report-program.html http://www.finra.org/Industry/Issues/AML/#9
No, just the paper. There was what I thought was a link, but it was a contact email for the ICTA rep.
There are a lot of dirty secrets government doesn't want you to know about: edited - you are straying into very political territory
