I always thought NGC would body bag damaged coins but from the looks of Heritage they don't.... http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=26064&Lot_No=13817 Wonder if they will also slab cleaned coins and such now!!! Speedy
Maybe because its an error coin that they made an exception? I know that they usually use their conservation services if there is a problem coin.
The 1 cent planchet was damaged before it was struck with the nickel dies. If it had been damaged after it was struck, it would have been body-bagged. Charlie
Ah---good point Charlie! I still didn't know that they would slab it since it was damaged before it was minted. Speedy
Charlie is correct, it is a damaged planchet not a damaged coin. And coin struck on a planchet with a lamination, a cracked planchet, a clipped planchet etc - all of those are coins struck on damaged planchets. This one is no different.
As others have pointed out, this coin is simply an as-minted damaged coin. However, all TPGs, including ANACS, NGC and PCGS, market grade coins. All of them slab problem coins, including cleaned and otherwise messed with (i.e. post mint damage) coins. They simply are providing their opinion on the market value with their grades, and not the technical grade or an opinion on if something has been cleaned/recolored/messed with or not. Don't get confused in what the TPGs are saying by encapsulating coins -- they are simply providing their opinion on market acceptablity...Mike
They never indicated that they won't slab cleaned coins. Check out the tpg websites. They typically indicate that they will not slab HARSHLY (or some comparable term) cleaned coins. I interpret that as meaning a lightly or moderately cleaned WILL be slabbed on a routine basis. I have never seen any tpg claim that any/all cleaned coins will be body bagged. If you find such, I would like to read it myself. I suggest you read their policies firsthand, and make your own decision. Read with an open and discerning mind, don't just read what you want it to say. There are a number of examples of all of the top tpgs even slabbing harshly cleaned and sometimes even post mint damaged coins. Just look on line at descriptions and slab histories of some of the famous rare coins such as 1804 dollars, 1894-S dimes, or any other rarities found on the web (hard to find comparable websites for "common" coins). Breen and other experts have described a number of these coins as "harshly cleaned" and worse, yet they have made it into top tpg slabs. In researching tpg sites, I have never found any exclusion/exception clause for slabbing rarites, just statements that such problem coins will NOT be slabbed. Interestingly, one of the 1894-S dimes is thought to be too bad to become slabbed, so if that is true, the rarity exception theory would fail to hold water. How would one explain these problem coins in slabs? The good ol' boys club theory? They must have just missed those theory? Some kind of payoff/payback theory? I'm sure there are many thoughts, but it sure seems like something is fishy to me. I think if I submitted coins in the condition of some of those rarities, I could start a body bag collection.
I like the way that Leadfoot put it, they are only providing an opinion of "market acceptability". The problem with great rarities is that they are all market acceptable because they are so rare that one cannot say "I require a better coin" because such a coin is not available and it is possible that you may not live long enough for a better example to become available. Now with more common pieces, the availablility factor increases and the market becomes much less accepting of problems. Bottom line in my mind is that this is a market grading issue.
Well we will see if they will just slab a cleaned coin just because its rare. I have 2 1926-S Nickels that will be going to NGC....both will grade VF but one has some marks from an old cleaning...its not bad the reason it was cleaned was because it had PVC---I know that because it still had alittle bit when I got it and I had to put it in some Acetone---I got it off. This is a lowmintage/hard to find/pricy....and more coin so I'm guessing that they will slab it. If they BB it I'm going to put it in my set and leave it.! Speedy
Speedy, I would like to see if they slab it. I am guessing that they won't. A 1926 S Nickel is still not the same as an 1894 S Dime or a similiar coin. I have seen 09 S VDB's come back in body bags due to cleaning and that coin is more rare than a 26S Nickel.
slab coins i wonder why so many ms-70, ms-69, proof-70 and proof-69 on the modern commems, modern mint issue coins?. that's mean if i bought 100 pcs/set from the mint. there should be a lot of high grade coin on it.
Wrong---a dealer can send in hundreds of coins to get back maybe 1 PF70.....the 70's just aren't made all the time... Speedy
The honest answer is: Because the grading companies decide those are the grades they deserved. Remember TPGs really PRICE coins. They don't grade them directly. They subjectively "rank" them. That's why I have problems with modern coins in high grade plastic fetching many times the price of one in the next lower grade. This is riduculous if you ask me, as the "difference" between the coins is both subjective and negligable. One of my coin mentors would say, "crack that coin out of the holder and how much would a collector pay for it," and he is right. This is a question each of you should ask yourself when buying any numismatic item if you care about the value you are receiving...Mike
Super grade modern coins were created for two reasons 1) So people could compete against each other in the registry set battle and 2) So the super rich could have something to blow their money on besides coke. When someone pays tens of thousands of dollars for a 1960 ms70 cent something that in ms65 is a buck and then laughs about what they paid, they aren't really that into the hobby, they're just blowing cash to say they did.
Sorry Speedy, you are wrong on this. It has been demonstrated time in and time again that NGC "awards" 10, 12, 15, sometime 20 times MORE 70 grades for their moderns than PCGS. For those that are new here...When I say "times", I mean that you take the number of 70 grades divided by the number of total submissions they have received to date for a given coin (per their population reports). Compare that number and you will see that NGC hands out 70 grades as high as 20 times more frequently than PCGS. Hence this this a MAJOR reason why the values for a NGC 70 graded coin are sold ( and retailed) for a fraction of what a PCGS 70 coin is sold. Prices realized from all the auction houses (eBay, Heritage, and Teletrade) all support this assertion.
Again I will not agree---when thinking of the billions of coins that the mint will mint in just one week....if you only buy 100 then more than likely you aren't going to get lots of 70's...... Speedy
In their early years of operation both PCGS and NGC did claim that they would never slab a cleaned or dipped coin. As tie passed they became more and more lenient on their standards.
