Credentials of numismatic professionals

Couldnt have said that better myself.
My father owned and operated a successful business and didnt have a degree. Im not going to college but does that make me any less of a good person to do business with? I believe in people and what they do makes them. not 4 years and a piece of cardstock printed with a laserjet that 1,000,000 have.

 

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A high school diploma, a two year associates degree or a four year BA or BS "speak nothing" [sic] to the quality of the person who earned them.

I'm reminded, in fact, of a young man who was accepted into Harvard University at the age of 16, where he earned an undergraduate degree. Later, he obtained a PhD in mathematics from the University of Michigan.

Or the gentleman who attended the University of Washington briefly, before dropping out to pursue an interest in politics. Several years later, he returned to college at Temple University, and eventually finished his BS in psychology.

Or perhaps the man who earned his Associate's Degree in Electronics from Butler County Community College, before going on to attend Wichita State University, where he earned a Bachelor's in Administration of Justice.

Each of these gentleman demonstrated the "quality of person" they were with tremendous flare...

Ted Kaczynski when he killed 3 people and injured 23 others with an anti-technology motivated mail bombing campaign that lasted over 2 decades.

Ted Bundy by murdering 30 people (at least) in 7 states in a mere 4 years. The best demonstration of his 'quality", however, was probably having sex with several of his female victims after he killed them.

Dennis Rader was the best one though. he showed HIS quality by coming up with the clever "BTK - Bind, Torture, Kill" acronym for himself as he was committing 10 murders over 17 years.

Gee....after all that, I'm kind of prompted to wonder what happened to people who didn't finish high school or college...

There seems to be a few who dropped out of college to pursue his crazy computer ideas...they never turn into anything though. Just ask Steve Jobs and Michael Dell.

Or the kids who don't finish HIGH SCHOOL... They never go on to write great novels (H.G. Wells), become the first internet billionaires (Jim Clark), sign the Declaration of Independence (Patrick Henry), or make any sort of artistic contributions (Louis Armstrong, Ansel Adams, Lucille Ball, Jack Benny). They CERTAINLY don't do anything significant to help the community or country (Danny Thomas, Walter Nash, Andrew Jackson), or start profitable companies (Richard Branson).

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What's that you say? A small sample of well known names doesn't "prove" that college graduates turn into serial killers, or that high school dropouts go on to fabulous success?

Why...you know...I believe you might be right. Maybe the presence or lack of education DOESN'T determine someone's character or quality.

What a concept.

 

OP asked

I am only being quasi-flippant when I say there probably is, but are you really going to spend the money required to do so???? If you want to do a thorough background check, that actually takes people willing to go to the neighbors, friends, past employers, etc. That costs big bucks. And even then, a lot of information is private, and you have to have that person's permission to check with certain people. Otherwise it might be termed stalking or something. Especially if you do it just to determine if you will purchase some coins from someone. Not really being flippant about that. I really don't imagine you are talking about a real background check.


Or are you simply wanting to have some fancy quick resume type of one or two sheets telling about the guy, and a nice list of colleges and schools the guy has attended so you can make a determination by how well-off his parents probably were, based on where he went to school?

 

Sometimes I take things to the nth degree. That makes me superior.

 

I never finished college. I was all set to go into an OJT program at Goddard Space Flight Center with NASA, but Uncle Sam and a family got in the way. I wanted to be an astrophysicist. Maybe it was a good thing. I could have been on Challenger or Columbia.

Chris

 

Any questions about any retailer can be resolved by asking a few people the right questions. Check the BBB, talk to existing customers, go online to a background check site, etc. It may take a little effort and a small fee for background checks but if you're concerned about a sizeable future purchase it's worth it. However, a college degree or a felony record, say for DUI, says very little about a person's ability to be a reputable coin dealer. To me, it's more important to consider things like: number of years in the hobby, how long he/she has been a dealer and customer satisfaction. If you suspect anything is wrong, find somebody else. It's that simple.

 

A few years ago at the ANA summer seminar banquet, James Taylor and Bill Fivas were each awarded PhD diplomas. That makes them coin doctors doesn't it?

 

I wouldn't buy even a loaf of bread unless I see the sellers university transcripts and verify them myself.
He also must have achieved Eagle Scout, served as an officer in the military during wartime, done
volunteer work for the Red Cross, must be a registered Republican, cannot be homosexual, and most of all,
he must love his mother.
I have to know that the seller is deserving of my purchase, and if he cannot live up to my standards,
screw him, I'm off to the next mall.

 

Maybe we are being unfair to the OP and should ask what type of dealer does he want to run a background check on? This could explain a lot as to why he/she feels this necessary and I genuinely hope he tells us. There are so many different kinds of "dealers" out there that he very well may have a point. I would also like to know if the OP has ever been on the other side of the table and has any real experience dealing coins (and not just selling a few on eBay)?

 

All the comments on this thread are interesting.

Basically, the topic's intention was to try to get to knowing the business or company that we are dealing with, their background and credentials. And, yes, there are very bad people who have used their credentials and talents for very serious crimes; the devil was once the greatest angel, but fell through pride.

There are people who have achieved greatness without credentials or formal schooling or industry connections.

There are many people I have dealt with in numismatics that I have no idea what their background is, what their other interests are--and we are all the poorer for not connecting with people beyond the coin interest. So I guess in the future I may be more likely to ask someone I buy and sell from what their background is. That is not a rude question.

 

You may not think it's rude, but I challenge you to call some of the most well-known dealers in the business and ask if they've ever been charged or convicted of a felony. Or, ask them what degrees they hold that qualifies them as a professional numismatist. I would guess that most of them will hang up on you.

Chris

 

I have been following this interesting thread. To me, (for dicslosure, bachelor degree, MBA, and taught MBA classes), education is important to know about an employee to see what background they have and skills they should have. Its also important to ensure that someone is capable of interpreting things. An example would be if you want to ask someone what it means if you hear the risk premium on long bonds are spreading, or what it means if you hear the earths average temperature raised .3 degrees in the last decade. Its not that others are incapable of learning the true meanings of such things, its just you would assume someone with a degree in that field truly comprehends the meaning. That is the point in human history I see ourselves today. We are deluged with data, but we are short of people who can truly interpret the data correctly. A simpler example would be that your HDL test result comes back 76, what does that mean? Its data, but without a medical professional to interpret it for you its meaningless or misleading data.

Having said that, I find the US coin field "uneducatable", meaning there is no college degree that will enable a person to say, "I am a coin business expert". Therefor, I am not sure this debate really applies to US coins. Now, for ancients, I would listen to a dealer with a degree in ancient studies or art history if they told me the importance of a design, or its importance within art history. Short of that, coin dealing is old fashioned buy, sell, trade, and how a dealer performs is indicative of his character, something no education can give someone.

Sorry for the long winded post. I do wish Owle that its as simple as asking for a diploma, but I think we are stuck with dealing with reputations and learning on our own what character each dealer has.

Chris

 

That's not true and just silly.

 

OK. Name a bunch and we will consider your point seriously.

 

There may be a few exceptions to the common sense principle that business managers would have real credentials, and a clean record. These are generally regarded as earmarks of "good character". Tim Allen was jailed on a drug rap and has one of the most popular programs on TV, I am sure there are others who did the same thing and were never caught.

 

I agree with you about good credentials. However, I view credentials as not meaning just an education, but also experience. If a man creates a successful business and treats his employees and customers fairly, I really do not care if he graduated grade school or not. Education can be a shortcut to achieving "credentials", but if someone attended a university in the 80's I think its much more important what he has done in the last 20 years than the fact that he went to college. Also considering incarceration, I thought we were a nation of giving second chances? I have no problem giving someone who did something stupid when young a second chance. All of us were stupid when young. some just got unlucky and got caught doing something stupid.

There are loads of people who never attended college and are very successful businessmen. I truly believe by simply focusing on education you are shortchanging these people and their accomplishments. It would be nice and simple if it were as easy to check scholastic and incarceration records to see if a person is a good businessman, but its simply not nearly that easy, and I for one am glad.

Just my opinion.

Chris

 

I have a bachelor's degree from Yale and consider myself fairly well-educated, but I have also learned that there are lots and lots of smart people who never had the chance to attend college. That B.A. doesn't make me better than anybody else. I am stupid about a lot of things and have had to learn from experience. Most of what I learned, at least in terms of what I use today, I picked up along the way, either before or after college. But I have been a coin dealer for 50 years, if you count selling my first coins for a profit at age 12, and know that nothing can replace a good reputation. I'm small fry compared to many dealers but I treat people right, and my customers know it.

Education and knowledge are nice, and I have lots of interests, but in the coin business nothing counts like a good reputation.

Best Regards,

George

 

I've had three careers in my life and I didn't have a diploma for any of them. I was self-taught in each of the fields and even taught courses at a school for one of them even though I didn't have a degree. I've worked as a researcher in a university and had undergrads working for me in that department. During the stint at the university I was also the head of the photography department for a museum.

I couldn't provide the OP with paper that showed any higher education that would prove my qualifications for any of the careers I've had. It was my self-taught expertise that put me into those jobs.

I'm a Chef now and again I've never stepped foot in a school for my training. I have 30 staff that work for me and I also have students from a cooking school that come and receive their work credit in my kitchen. I've been told that I could do the challenge for the Red Seal Certificate which would give me credentials to work in essentially any restaurant in the world. But, at my age, I'm quite content to be where I am.

Formal education is important and I wouldn't advise anyone to forego it. However, you can't dismiss life experience.

 

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