IHC Question

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Cazkaboom, Feb 9, 2012.

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  1. mikem2000

    mikem2000 Lost Cause

    TPG's grade dipped coins all the time. It is only the ones that were not dipped properly, that do not get slabbed. While you are correct, they may not have abrasive marks, but a coin that is over dipped until it dull and lifeless is certainly harshly cleaned IMO. The coin has been totally stripped of its top layers that give us the luster. Sounds pretty harsh to me.

    Mike
     
    mikem2000, Feb 10, 2012
    #21 + Quote Reply
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  3. rodeoclown

    rodeoclown Dodging Bulls

    Yup, I was gonna second Condor101's reply as well.
     
    rodeoclown, Feb 10, 2012
    #22 + Quote Reply
  4. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    Cleaned or not cleaned - good pickup. I put it in the AU range also.

    I am also curious what the ones that think it was cleaned are seeing? To me the color looks even across all the worn surfaces and I would not expect that. This same color appears to slightly shinier in a couple of places. Not sure what you all are seeing - when I first saw it I thought recoloring of some sort. Not sure - can one of you all enlighten us. I think the coin is market exceptable, but not sure a tpg would.
     
    mark_h, Feb 10, 2012
    #23 + Quote Reply
  5. lkeigwin

    lkeigwin Well-Known Member

    I see very few copper coins that have been dipped and aren't pretty obvious. Dipped in what? Copper is very sensitive. eZest will turn it orange/pink. Even normally benign acetone does ugly things to the color of RD and RB copper.

    BN copper can tolerate acetone, oxylene, Blue Ribbon, Verdicare and CoinCare. And unless the handler does foolish things when applying any of these, most BN copper is perfectly market acceptable when treated with these solutions. (Yes, I know PCGS's Sniffer barks at Blue Ribbon. Experienced collectors have been using it safely for many years. What PCGS objects to is residual glossiness intended to deceive graders.)

    I don't think the OP's coin has been dipped.

    So what then? Cleaning with lemon juice or ketchup or vinegar? Doesn't look at all like that's been done. The brightening would be obvious. Wiping with some sort of polish? Where are the hairlines?

    Lord knows the TPG's are unpredictable about their "cleaned" judgment calls. I would never guarantee OP's IHC would grade problem-free. I simply think it looks like it has not been spoiled. And I think the OP got a heck of a deal on it!
    Lance.
     
    lkeigwin, Feb 10, 2012
    #24 + Quote Reply
  6. RobertAPearce

    RobertAPearce Member


    I think we can rule out an Orbital Sander!

    The Coin looks GREAT to me! But then, even at age 60, I'm a newby at this grading stuff!
     
    RobertAPearce, Feb 10, 2012
    #25 + Quote Reply
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Look at the full size picture and it's pretty easy to see the black gunk remaining in the tight recesses of the letters, date and touch on the shield.

    When there is that much left in that many places, it's a pretty good bet that there was a lot more previously. And since it isn't there now then it was obviously removed, cleaned, from the rest of the coin. Also the color is bit odd, the shade of brown a bit too light, making it look washed for lack of another term.

    But proper cleaning is not a bad thing, in any way shape or form.

    A diluted dip works pretty well on a lot of copper. You have to play with it to get the mixture just right, and then play with the timing as also. But when you do it works pretty dang well. There's a lot more dipped copper out there than most people would believe.

    As reactive as copper is, do you really think that there could be that many Red and Red Brown coins in existence after that many years ? If you search Heritage for large cents alone, there are 56 pages, with 50 on each page, that are Red or Red Brown. And the newest one of those is 150 years old.

    Now add in all of the half cents, and small cents from the past 150 years that are Red and Red Brown. And you have one heck of a lot of copper coins that have resisted the natural forces of nature - toning.

    Is it due to luck ? Chance ? For that many ? Do you really believe that ?

    I don't think so. Even in today's world, with the advanced storage methods that we now have, keeping copper from toning is all but impossible. So the only possible conclusion is that many of those coins have been dipped. And successfully so.


    edit - Warning - anybody that tries dipping copper, without the requisite experience, does so at their peril !
     
    GDJMSP, Feb 11, 2012
    #26 + Quote Reply
  8. kaosleeroy108

    kaosleeroy108 The Mahayana Tea Shop & hobby center

    i would say toning its like about right , but it may have been cleaned in the past . i&e the unnatural purple ... in some area but a nice coin even if cleaned..
     
    kaosleeroy108, Feb 11, 2012
    #27 + Quote Reply
  9. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Let me make a point here. This coin has been cleaned -

    322656_slab.jpg
     
    GDJMSP, Feb 11, 2012
    #28 + Quote Reply
  10. lkeigwin

    lkeigwin Well-Known Member

    I have many 100+ old RD copper cents that have not been cleaned. I would agree that many old copper coins have been "cared for". But it is just wrong to say every old red penny has been conserved.
    Lance.
     
    lkeigwin, Feb 11, 2012
    #29 + Quote Reply
  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I didn't say every one of them has Lance. I said that it is not even reasonable to assume that when there are that many of them that some of those, possibly many of them, had not been cleaned. Or, you can say conserved if you wish but proper cleaning and conserving are exactly the same thing.
     
    GDJMSP, Feb 11, 2012
    #30 + Quote Reply
  12. lkeigwin

    lkeigwin Well-Known Member

    Agreed. I guess I misunderstood.
    Lance.
     
    lkeigwin, Feb 11, 2012
    #31 + Quote Reply
  13. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    Thanks Doug. I see it know.

    And lance someone on this board has a copper cleaning solution that does pretty good if used correctly. :) I do agree a lot of them are so obvious it is pathetic.
     
    mark_h, Feb 11, 2012
    #32 + Quote Reply
  14. Cazkaboom

    Cazkaboom One for all, all for me.

    Hey guys, thanks for the information. If I ever sell it I'll be labeling it as lightly cleaned in the description. But until I find a higher grade IHC with original surfaces at such a screaming deal, I'll be keeping this beauty.

    ~Cannyn
     
    Cazkaboom, Feb 13, 2012
    #33 + Quote Reply
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