Ever immediately get that feeling something is wrong from a single glance of an image? My spidey senses went off immediately when I saw this one, but I couldn’t quite put my finger on it at 1st. Images of this one on the left, a known genuine one on the right. Just looking at the images the date seemed off, especially the ‘9’s and details just looked out of location on the reverse. Thinking it could be an electro I asked the seller for images of the edge and he stated he would get them for me. A day passed without them and I asked other early copper nuts thoughts; one of my friends and early LC expert also does overlays on occasion for me and worked on this one last night. He sent me the following images with the subject coin overlayed on a known genuine example (he has the coin software to do that very effectively): His comments:”Well, I widened the pictures slightly, did the overlays, don't like the coin, at least as far as being S-189. I have attached 4 pictures. Two are the slightly widened pictures from ebay, I also increased the contrast so that they looked better. The other 2 are overlays of those pictures and 20099, the CC1 S-189. No match between either obverse or reverse. For the obverse, I used as anchors the lower space in the B of LIBERTY and the loop of the last 9. The idea is to choose 2 points as far apart as possible, seeing how the things in between lay. The base of Y in 20099 is bright, due to illumination from the left, and it shows up above the base of Y from the eBay coin. Also, did you see what looks to be a die break down the side of the head of Liberty on the ebay coin? If a die break, I don't recognize it. The busts align pretty well, but shifted a little. The face profile of the 20099 is dark, due to the left illumination, a little to the right of the face of the ebay coin. For the reverse overlays, my anchor points are the center of the central 0 of the fraction denominator, and the upper curl of the second S in STATES. What a mess! Indicates that STATES ends at quite different places on the 2 coins, causes the whole upper side to be far off. Coin is not S-189. What is it made from? 1798 is only a guess, to get the type II hair, and the 3 digits 179. But the question is whether it is a genuine 1799--I think not. I notified the seller of our observations and without a word he ended the auction. Shortly afterward he sent me the following message: “Thanks, Yeah, it was a real kick in the ___. Brought to my coin dealer and he was excited then kept looking. Looks like a really old counterfeit. 9's are too fat, R isn't over her hair tip and the all unforgiving thud not ring test." Bidding was over $6100 with 5 days left… Best, Jack.
Whatever pushback you may receive from some others, I hope you never stop posting these counterfeit threads. I learn something every time you post.
Pushback really doesn't bother me @Randy Abercrombie ; I am one who tells folks their "coin" is counterfeit- kinda like calling their baby ugly... But I don't respond or post until I have done my due diligence and work hard to be accurate. Illogical/ irrational pushback is harder to deal with in my experience. Edit, I missed posting the date comparison images:
Thanks @Jack D. Young for sharing valuable information. A safe and happy New Year to you and all Coin Talkers.
The "9s" are very obivious, but I do have a question/curiosity about this. Back when this was made and the die breaks or wears out another has to be made. With the way they (dies) were made, would it be unreasonable to think there would be some minor differences. Or if a different person made the follow-up die couldn't that also accountfor some differences. As always I certainly enjoy reading your posts. Will you be ging to the Fun Show?
Would love to attend @lardan but not this one- hopefully in the near future! When a die wears out and a new die is created the differences become a new die variety; this would be an unknown/ new variety of 1799 large cent if genuine. It is apparent from my responses with the seller he ultimately knew what he had...
The teardrop shape of the interior of the 9s immediately caught my eye, especially relative to the genuine one. It's sad to think some of these probably sit in someone's collection for a generation before they pop up again.
Very interesting. Good catch. Yeah my thought was old electrotype as well it’s good counterfeit I agree. I just wonder what when and where from
