I recently acquired this 20 centavos, 90% silver Cuban coin. I noticed these small 'bumps' on the face. One small one on the U, and a larger one between the B & A on the word CUBA. What would have caused this? I believe these were minted in Philadelphia. Does this discrepancy add anything to the coins value? -besides the assumed extra 0.05grams of silver?! Any help would be great. Thanks.
Well if they were die chips they should not affect the weight. I wish the pictures were more close-up because the lumps could be casting defects. Is the star in high profile with ridges in the centers of the rays? One common feature of copies of this type is that they have a low profile star, which would not be the case for a 1948. Also, the denticles below "veinte centavos" almost look like they are dots separated from the rim. This would also be a red flag, but it may just look like that due to the pictures. One last note: the position of the star points in relation to lettering is slightly off.
Star Sorry, the upper coin is a seprate 10 centavos. (1948). The 20 centavos is the bottom one, and is a 1949. Will try and post a closeup pic of the area in question soon.
Close-ups. OK, here's a couple close-up pics of the area in question, as well as a reverse shot of the same coin. -A 20 centavos Cuban coin from 1949. Although the bump between the B & A is larger and more pronounced, the one on the U is obviously 'under' the letter. Does this give a better clue as to what happened here?
The coins appears to be a legit and high grade example. As for the bumps, I'd have to pass on making a guess. Since the coin doesn't seem plated or like it had been soldered on the edge near the bumps, I don't know what caused this.
You would not think that someone would make a copy of such a low valued coin. As for the bumps, I think they were caused by some sort of die-deterioration. Or the die had something left on it from the previous coin. I can't remember what that is called. Anyone else?
One of a Kind. I was pretty certain it was legit. -(was purchased in Cuba) But I really want to know the mystery behind the discrepancy. Haven't seen any similar errors on other coins. Anyone have an idea? Would this affect the value of the coin?
Well, I looked into the die-break theory. It's supposed to make a 'blob' on the coin, of which the larger ones are called cuds. Here's one of the things I found: [h=1]Cud Errors[/h] Cud Errors as many of you know, occur when there is a major die break in the coin making process. Just like anything that is struck over a million times a day, a coin die will eventually crack and a piece will fall away even though the dies are made from tool steel. As a crack progresses and reaches from side to side on the die, the portion defined by the crack will in most cases, fall away. When this occurs, as you can well guess, the next coins into the die will usually end up having a featureless blob on the face where the die broke. Granted, not the prettiest of errors, but cud errors are still a highly sought after item by coin collectors. Two problems I found with this are: 1. Of the examples I saw, this one is enormous in comparison. And 2. If it were a chip of the broken die that the metal was flowing in to, how would the letters still appear on top of the blob?
Hey Bro ! I just checked my Cuba coins and there is not any marks like the one you have. I am 99.9% these are the real deal. I hope to find some more when I go next time. ( this Thursday ) lol
Cud? I looked into the die break theory. Basically a piece of the die mold breaks, then when the coin is cast, the molten metal flows into the empty chip and makes a bump type thing, sometimes called a 'cud'. But if that's what happened, the letters would no longer be visible, because there wouldn't be any mold there for the design, right? The only thing I can deduce is that the blank slug had these splattered bumps on it before it was stamped with the design. That would explain why the large lump where there is no design is intact, and the smaller one looks smushed down where the 'U' hit it. I don't know much about coin production. -is this theory possible? I came across one similar example in this forum entitled '1990 Loonie Lump', I think. They were saying some metal may have bubbled up under the plating? It didn't sound like they arrived at any conclusive results either. Is this mystery solvable?
It looks like a legit cud to me. But, cuds do seem to be a lot more common on copies - I've seen them show up on counterfeit Morgan's. Are Cuban 10 & 20 Centavos really a target for duplication? I see these sell for melt all the time. Other than using base metal, what would be the return?
Wouldn't it be impossible for the 'U' to be stamped on top of a cud? I thought cuds were, by their nature, blank(?). Isn't a cud caused by an absence of that piece of the die?
I don't think it would be bubbling under the plating. For one that happens on plated coins like our pennies. I think with the coin being 90 percent silver that bubbling would not happen. JMO
I agree. That was just one theory they had for the loonie, which is plated. It had one larger bubble under part of the design. Looked similar. However, this cuba coin has 2 noticable, oblong shaped lumps, plus another couple tiny specs. Looks like molten metal was splattered across part of the coin before it was stamped.. as impossible as that sounds..
I think you are looking at a coin struck from a cast counterfeit DIE. The die was cast and bubbles in the casting of the die left voids in the die face and raised areas on the coins struck from it.
Well, it looks like silver, and sounds like silver... Seems like it wouldn't make a lot of sense to make a counterfeit copy of a coin in silver, in a country that hasn't accepted it for decades. Think I'll get it checked out somewhere. Can't handle the mystery...
I was born in Cuba and honestly can't say that I met many counterfitters in the island; but I met one. A friend of mine had the gift of duplicating currencies of any denomination. He once created a copy of a 40 CENT coin that if I am not mistaking had Camilo's face on it, and its made out of silver he melted from older 20 cent coins made prior to Castro getting in power. As for your coin: I don't think is a fake. Counterfitters pay very close attention to details and even though this one has a very small detail, they would not have let it slide out of pride in their work. Your coin is beautiful and in great condition, and that is all there is to it; and who knows, perhaps my dear friend in the island had something to do with it.
Mystery Solved. Today I took the coin to two different coin shops in the Philadelphia area and showed the coin to two knowledgeable people there to get their opinions on the coin. They both readily agreed that: - The coin is silver. - It's a genuine coin. (not a copy or counterfeit) - It had been cleaned at some point. (Probably with a silver cleaning solution of some type) - It's an error coin. - The error was caused by a faulty planchet. They offered two different possibilities as to what may have happened to the planchet. One said some stray pieces of metal could have wound up on it before the coin was struck. The other said some bubbles may have formed when the planchet was being made - possibly from some contaminants being introduced. Value-wise, it's worth whatever the coin usually goes for, plus what someone will pay for an error coin of that type. I think I'll start the bidding at $1000...
