Some of my nicest newest finds, including a possible counterfeit note... ;(

Funny Russell, you should bring that up. My next question was literally going go be how we can tell if the front and back plates match up. Does anyone know?

 

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Can you post the plate numbers, front and back? I can't make them out from the scans.

 

While that may be true, I'm sure that that is the exception, and not the rule. I have a couple of close friends who have worked in banks for many years, and who know their stuff. They would know a fake if they saw one. However, full disclosure, they are also currency buffs.

Besides, you can always get a second opinion. If you bring the note to a bank, they say it's real, and you still don't totally buy it, try to find a local coin/currency dealer to give you his/her take on it.

Also, you don't have to make a special trip out of it, or anything, and "waste gas" driving down to the bank. If it were me, I would just set the note aside, until the next time I had to go to the bank.

No sense in going out of your way.

None of this, by the way, is meant to discount Travis' knowledge of paper money. He seems to me to really know his stuff, and I'm sure he can spot a fake, just as good as any currency dealer, or banker.
People are merely throwing their ideas out there, myself included, and giving an opinion.
Even the most knowledgeable enthusiast gets tripped up, now and then.

I don't think anybody doubts Travis's knowledge. At least I don't.

Cheers!

 

Here's why I disagree...

IF indeed a fake note, and we have no reason based on the posts in this tread to believe that the OP has the requisite knowledge to say it's fake, because for one, the OP is questioning it here and has shown he's uncertain whether it's fake or not. And two, hasn't provided a list of failed diagnostics used to prove its fake, nor provided enough visual evidence for others to agree with him, thus confirming the note is fake based on the OPs in-hand observation. Three, he hasn't yet taken steps beyond this forum to certify the note as counterfeit, such as sending to a TPG to certify that it's fake, and proving his assessment meets industry professionals' review, namely that they concur it's fake.

Additionally, this is an even larger issue and every person's responsibility to take action, if fake, to report the note. Doing so is for stopping the greater damage being done to the security of our currency, the safety of transactions and stopping the theft that the criminal enterprise sending these into circulation is getting by with doing. By not helping to report the finding, if indeed fake, it enable criminal activity to continue. Notes can be tracked, and if fake, the information about when and where the fake appeared helps to paint a picture of damage or locate where these notes surface, perhaps leading to the culprit(s) in due course of investigation.

I can totally understand the urge of a collector to hang onto the note, or for others to proclaim their detection was suitable and frame it on the wall to boast about it, but it's irresponsible at helping to stop the larger threat. Had they done so, they might boast of their involvement in stopping such a threat rather than admiring a piece of paper with no valid proof it was a fake nor that they took steps to help authorities stop the crime.

Faulting bank tellers who failed to detect a counterfeit is weak support of your argument here when we cannot verify the story you are referring to. Please provide links and documentation regarding the note(s) you speak about to back this up . Not all bank tellers in their quick review with counterfeit-detection-pens and whatever (if any) training they have received from their employers, are going to catch all fakes. The N. Korean superdollars. and their high quality is what makes them effective counterfeits. Most bank tellers are not as adept at catching them as one may suspect a 'banking professional' to be. The same is true of the individual. Even amateurs get lucky finding fake notes, be they amateurs working as bank tellers, WG or CT participants, but those amateurs can't be relied upon to stop the counterfeiters from doing their crime, and refusal to report the notes to the authorities only enables crimes to continue.

This is not a done case until we actually see high resolution scans and some better proof to back up the OPs claims, and so that he can earn some of the credibility you heaped on him in your post NOS, that he's detected a counterfeit. And if fake, to see what responsible steps the OP decides to take to alert the authorities to the crime he uncovered.

 

I'm not trying to be mean to the OP. If you need a smile to believe me then take one: :smile

However, until proven to be a counterfeit note, don't cast aside all doubt.

 

Not really sure where you're coming from here, Krispy.

I never thought you were being mean to anybody.

 

Here is the notes information:
Series 1988A $1 E74576408N. The front left hand plate is E3 and the front right hand plate reads E706. The back left plate is 424.

 

Those plate #s all sound good to me, the E3 is within the E1-4 range and matches the other plate letter on the front which should be E as well. 424 on the back is good for this series as well.

I can see where Krispy is coming from as far as reporting goes for the greater good in stopping criminals but personally I don't feel the desire to bother reporting low denomination fakes to banks or the government. If they would offer reimbursement I would be more supportive in encouraging people to hand in fake notes. I really can't stand the government's attitude of "We'll give you nothing to reimburse you for your fake bill that you were going to use to buy food for your family with but be patriotic and turn them in."

Here is the link to the $100 bill in question:
http://forums.wheresgeorge.com/showthread.php?t=173695
The first responder noticed why it was fake immediately.

 

Also, don't know if this helps, but, just as a frame of reference:

I also have a 1988A Richmond, that is one block away from t-bud's note (E-P block) with a back plate number of 418.

 

According to a plate position calculation based on the serial number, "E3" is a correct plate position, and the serial number is valid for the block — I doubt that a counterfeiter would delve into that much detail for a $1 note. There are an endless number of things that could have happened to the note to make it seem odd.

 

So all of the fine details are correct with the note. It probably is authentic, 1988A $1s by their very nature have a slightly different look to them than other series as the BEP fooled around with different kinds of paper and ink (even for non-webs) during this era. I feel this is most noticeable when they are either very worn or in high-grade of condition.

 

I'm not familiar with different ink and paper variations for Series 1988 A $1 FRNs — Do you have an specific information about the differences?

 

I'll see what I can find. I have personally noticed these differences with 1988A $1 notes and I believe I have seen Numbers write about it before in the past on the wheresgeorge forum.

 

It's okay, it was a reference to past history when I didn't use smiley icons but doubted other posts. Sometimes when I doubt things on these forums, people think it's unfair or they get upset. As we are beginning to see, the information is coming together and leading away from this note being a counterfeit. I have been told that by adding smiley icons, this may placate some readers who feel slighted when challenged by differing perspectives, so earlier I offered one as a gesture to prove to anyone reading my words that the doubtful tone wasn't out of meanness. :thumb:

 

Thanks for that link NOS!

I agree with you that those who surrender counterfeit notes might, if not in violation of the currency law regarding such notes themselves, receive equal value reimbursement for the face value of the note surrendered. However, I don't follow your logic regarding not turning in low denomination notes. If there are one million counterfeit one dollar notes in circulation or 200,000 five dollar notes, or 10,000 one hundred dollar notes, it still amounts to a million dollars of fraudulent currency, and is all equally liable to conviction if the criminals are caught. As I said earlier, each counterfeit note reported, with details of when and where, helps build a profile for an investigation, or removes remaining fakes from those cases already closed but with extant notes in circulation. So there is no basis to justify your idea not to report lower denomination notes, and if going by your comments, you'd be better off surrendering a $1 counterfeit note rather than a fake $100, as you'd be loosing less money for taking the responsible course of action and alerting the authorities, and attempting to protect the merchants who came before you who effectively had merchandise stolen by use of counterfeit bills in the community. Be it a single $1 note or a single $100 note, the financial impact may be greater per transaction but there is no difference in severity of the crime committed.

 

Hmmm...it isn't ringing a bell, I'm afraid. There were some plate-engraving changes in the '80s, and of course there were the 1988A web notes, and then I've heard that there were some notes about that time that were printed with a bad batch of ink that tends to flake off. But I'm not sure about changes to the paper for the $1's...?

 

Point taken. It is quite interesting that you used the word "extant", I became familiar with this word last week in my introductory Physical Anthropology class. Under a scientific context, it means the opposite of "extinct", which is a much more known and used word with the general public.

Yes, this is exactly what I was referring to. I've seen this many times with 1988A $1 notes, even when they are still in otherwise fairly nice condition you can see that the quality of ink used wasn't that good.

 

NOS, this might be hard to believe but we are a nation of laws! ...and we'll just end it right there... Oh and an unregistered machine gun will get you about the same time in prison. You might want to check the conviction rate in federal court. It's pretty high!