Alright, I posted a few days ago that I made my first 'real' purchase. I posted the link to the eBay thread and received not the best of responses. Many people believed the coin was cleaned, fake, over graded, etc. I just got it today and I must say it's a beauty. Here are a few pictures. It's the best I can do with my cell camera. I take it I should break the holder? It was graded by NNC (Hence why people were crying foul) Lots of hairline scratches on the holder so I can't really get a good look at the coin with it on. Hammer? Lol
I'm not the best grader but here is my opinion. The coin doesn't have the luster/ shine of a MS65 which makes me believe it has been cleaned. It could be the picture itself and not the coin though.
Ill break it out of the case tonight and try to take better pictures. it does have some blemishes actually. why would you say its dipped? What would show this? It just an assumption based on the grading company. let me know, I have coin in hand and can verify this with magnifying glass.
It's graded by NNC, so that in and of itself is enough to know this coin is not a 65. It does look like it was cleaned, has a dull appearance to it, enough marks on the obverse to hold it back to a 62/63ish coin. Just a highly suspicious appearance overall to this coin. Hope you didn't pay more than $35-$40 for it. I wouldn't have.
Cleaned for sure. I never buy slabs with any names other than NGC, PCGS, or ANACS. I'd rather buy totally raw than a cheap slab with 3-10 points added to the grade. Besides, they're usually problem coins in those slabs. Just look at this as a learning experience.
Although the reasoning was unmentioned by most, a better grade Morgan should have cartwheel type of luster. Even standing still, there should be a spoke of it visible. When it is lacking it is most often a sign of over-dipping so that the microscopic ridges are worn down to the base surface producing a dull type of reflection. Over -dipping occurs either from an inexperienced owner or to remove severe tarnish. Jim
First off NNC expect that MS65 to be at best a 62/63 and maybe at worst an AU. Rule of thumb with them is over inflated grade by at least 2-3 grades and 5-6 at worst for genuine coins. Now that's assuming that it isn't tampered with, counterfeit or cleaned. As to your question of how to tell cleaning. It depends on how amature or professional the job was. Most will dip the coins and then take a brush to get everything off the coin. Others will rub with a towel to dry the coin. Any of this rubbing or scrubing will leave lines all over the coin...field and devices. Coins that are buffed or whizzed will leave circular lines and marks all over. Heavy dips will actually etch the coin and take a ultra thin layer of the metal off with it when taking the tone, patina, dirt, etc. off the coin. Look for coins with a real smooth surface or if it etches the coin too much it will leave scars in the metal. The light dips are the hardest to tell especially if they were rinsed properly with distilled water to dillute the dip and blotted dry or air dried. Still some of the dirt, tone whatever they were trying to remove will still be present as these don't etch the coin so they don't take it all away. You will also tend to see some pitting or marks in the coin that was caused by whatever they removed. If you see pitting or corrosion but they is nothing on the coin then ask yourself how did the damage get here? It didn't happen by magic so the coin was cleaned. The cause was taken off the coin but the damage that the oxidation, or corrosion, or PVC, etc. did to the coin will still be there and in many cases is actually more pronounced than if they had left it alone. As always though ask an expect dealer you trust to make a final determination as they will be able to look at it with coin in hand.
Thanks for all that information Dannic, I'll definitely take a close look at it. I do see surface hair line scratches but only on some small parts of the coin. I wish I had an actual camera I can take good pictures with.
IMO, the coin has had it's surfaces altered (as PCGS would put it). It could have been done in a number of ways. If you put this coin side-by-side with an unaltered coin, the differences should be obvious -- more obvious than any level of explanation offered on this forum could hope to be. I would recommend you go to your local coin shop, or coin club, or coin show, and do just that...compare your coin to others. Focus on how the coin reflects light as you rotate the coin under it. The difference should be obvious. Good luck in your numismatic education -- you've just made the first tuition payment. Consider yourself lucky it wasn't a much more expensive lesson, and please consider having your future purchases vetted through someone more experienced than you. It will pay off in the long run and also speed your learning process -- a process ALL of us have gone through. All of the above IMO and respectfully submitted....Mike
I really respect all your opinions and thank you for sharing. I bought a graded slabbed coin because I couldn't trust myself yet only to find the company was fraudulent. I've certainly learned a lot. Thankfully it didn't cost me a lot. I've certainly benefited from it.
You should also take a look in the Post your Morgan thread. There are a lot of pictures of Morgans in there. Use that thread to guess the grade and to take a look at how some might differ with toning and all.
