Have NGC Standards been improving? PCGS vs. NGC standards

I use to be a PCGS only guy. Now that I have been learning more about numismatics, I have been grading the coin (not the slab). It was first pointed out to me that NGC has higher grading standards for the FBL in the Franklin series. Recently I have been noticing some minor intricacies in an entirely different series. It might just be me. This is about the only way I can describe what I am feeling if it makes any sense. Let us take a spectrum. On one side are problems with the coin.. ie possible artificial toning, possible cleaning, possible dipping, rim dings. Now let's move to the other end of the spectrum which I will refer as positive qualities. For the sake of this post we will call them (Grading +, and opposed to Grading - [problems]) So on the - side it appears that PCGS is more particular on these issues. Now take NGC it appears to me that they are being more strict on the + grading side. What I mean by this is that PCGS seems to be strict on problems, while Lax on the positive aspects of U.S. Coinage. This would insinuate to me that PCGS is trying to capture the higher end of the market, while NGC is attempting to capture the lower end of the slabbed market. Why can they not come together and agree on standards? Have they done this already? Serious opinions please. I would like to hear thoughts from numismatists that have been collecting since 1986. I will try to post pictures of what I am talking about.

~Jason

 

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I am going to try and chime in here, I am in no means an expert, nor do I claim to be. In what you described, I try to generalize it in comparison to purchasing a Corvette vs. purchasing a Ferrari. On one hand, they are both very nice rides. If these cars went through auction, say Barrett for example, the ferrari would more than likely bring more. The people that would grade the ferrari, would more than likely be along the lines of a more distinguished "group." The other "group," would see the Corvette as "breath-taking, awesome, etc." Dependent upon peoples' preferences, the Ferrari will always bring more, as the "more distinguished people" were the ones to grade it. I guess how I am trying to say this is- some things just arent in the same caliber categories as others. It is all about preferences Jason, but if it were up to me, and I was paying good money for a graded coin, I would want it to be graded to the strictest, and most detailed standards. So, in conclusion, if you had a coin that graded MS 70 by PCGS standards, in my opinion, you would have a better coin, in the sense that you say they pay more attention to the flaws. This is just my 2 cents....
Rocky

 

Yea, I believe you are on to something. It is actually up to the whoever the buyers are. Their perception. This shouldn't be a case where the conservative polished man in a 3 piece suit is the authority (that is unless their grading standards were conservative). There is some interesting marketing that goes on with these slabbs. I do wonder why PCGS switched from the OGH. It is of my opinion that there was someone brilliant behind the curtains. They must have figured that if they switched from OGH to current that in the future their coins would sell at a higher profit margain (maybe even stimulating the U.S. Coin market). Not sure if it has anything to do with looks.

 

Well - both PCGS and NGC have series they are tougher on, but even taken that into consideration you still have to look at the coin. The bottom line is the coin in the holder. Me - I prefer PCGS because I like their holders better, but I have several NGC graded coins that will stay in the set. As far as I am concerned anyone can prefer PCGS or NGC for grading, but the bottom line is the coin.

 

Jason, you can't generalize one way or the other (+ or -) about the two companies. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Unfortunately, in my opinion, PCGS likes to play politics too often, and you know that politicians have a tendency to "toot their own horn" much of the time. I prefer NGC because they just keep their mouth shut and go about their business.

NGC has always been tougher on FBL than PCGS. There are also instances where I have seen coins downgraded on crossovers from NGC slabs, and also instances of upgrades when a coin is cracked out of an NGC slab and submitted to PCGS. To me, it's just one of the games that PCGS plays. For instance, I have a 98-O Morgan that used to be in an ANACS MS63DMPL. I cracked it out and submitted it to NGC and it came back in a bodybag (old method) for "Altered Surfaces". The same coin without any dipping or treatment of any kind was submitted to PCGS and it came back MS64PL.

Chris

 

For example, just one of my own, I have been scouring fee bay for graded coins, I prefer PCGS, just my personal preference. I think they are recognized more. I will pay a bit more for them, because I believe that in the future the coin will bring a better return. IMHO, I believe to most collectors, and serious coin folks, PCGS is the cream of the crop standard? Fellow CT members, agree or disagree?

 

This is why they are so often referred to as Kool-Aid drinkers. If that were true, all I need do is cite the 2003 Lincoln that PCGS graded MS70.

Chris

 

I like Kool-Aid !!!! Grape is my favorite!!!:hail:

 

I like Kool-Aid!!!! Grape is my favorite flavor, and I like orange on occasion too!!:hail:

 

I look at like it's a Ford or Chevy. If I like the coin itself, it doesn't matter which holder it's in. Another analogy is like an umpires strike zone. Different people will call it different ways. Same goes to different individuals grading coins. One may see it differently than the other.

 

Yep!

 

Lol, as a little league umpire, i get flack for my strike zone. perfect analogy!

 

You mean the coach on the bench doesn't have a better view than you do?? I ref basketball, so I'll get flack for just about everything at any given time!

 

Hey GG. Excellent score on those Walking Libertys btw. I was just going to note that I have found when it comes to top quality slabbed U.S. Coinage, the best approach may be to click on "buy now (often with an offer option), and keep refreshing the page every so often under " New Listings." I realized this while doing an economics project on eBay trends. You would be surprised how fast the toned/DCams dissapear. Sometimes within 10 minutes.

~Jason

 

naw, us Kool-Aid drinkers like to do the "time ending soonest" auctions cuz....LMFAO !!!!!! BAHAHHAA

 

GG, what kind of kool-aid did the double rainbow guy drink? I want some of that.

 

The two are separate companies and as such will always operaste independently. The reason these two have risen to the top of the TPGs is because their standards have stayed the most consistent with the coin market over time. This doesn't mean that the standards haven't changed, but rather than as they have changed they have stayed more consistent with the changes in the market.

Going forward, judgment will be made by comparison to the current market standards. If they remain consistent with the changes in the coin market, they will remain the top TPGs, but if someone comes along who is perceived to be more accurate with the current standard, then we will have another "top tier" TPG to add to the list.

 

I generally concentrate on cents.. in that space, yes. I think they have tightened up.

I recently send in 9 cents for crossgrade, but cracked them out and sent in raw.

Net result was an average -.44 net vs. the old slabbed grade. Roughly a half point lower across the sample....

.. so yeah, tougher based on this one recent sample.

Is that a good or bad thing.
Good - good in that it brings their ~grading tendency closer to mine... I tend to grade one grade lower than NGC, at least in the MS area.
Bad - bad in that they were my coins that graded -.44 pts lower. ; )