This topic will blend with another thread I have, so wanted to table the topic. Are there clearly deliniated attributes which define what a "Cleaned" coin is at the TPG's ? Hairlines are an obvious sign imo... although I have seen some coins in Tpg plastic with a few notable hairlines before. What about a MS64 coin that is dipped... ? If that's not a cleaned coin then what about a VF35 coin that is dipped ? Is it all ambigious non-defined feel of the grader?,, or are hairlines the single most import attribute for classifying a coin as cleaned ? My opinion is that hairlines are the single most important sign. Any guidance ?
Well sure, hairlines dictates that something foreign has rubbed or caused friction onto a coin's surface. Another tell tale sign of cleaned coins is the dark leftover patina toning on the crevices of certain devices. For example the legend, date, and motto where getting into the small letters with a cloth will leave some residual gunk while the fields are bright. I see older bust and seated liberty coins will this type of cleaning. That and the edges of reeded coins will have a lot of toning in comparison to the surfaces of the coin might dictate a clean job.
In my opinion yes. The only general rule I see being used is older coins, or key dates, seem to get a pass more often than newer, non-key coins. Other than that, I have seen cleaned coins that look identical in both good and body bag slabs. If you ever figure out a rhyme or reason I bet many would love to know what it is.
They could work on their nomenclature and come up with something more precise. This is the standard definition of "cleaned": clean (kln) adj. clean·er, clean·est 1. Free from dirt, stain, or impurities; unsoiled. 2. a. Free from foreign matter or pollution; unadulterated: clean air; clean drinking water. b. Not infected: a clean wound. 3. a. Producing relatively little pollution: a clean fuel; a cleaner, more efficient engine. b. Producing relatively little radioactive fallout or contamination: a clean nuclear bomb. 4. Having no imperfections or blemishes; regular or even: a clean edge; a smooth, clean joint. 5. a. Not ornate or intricate; spare: "the clean lines and exquisite proportions of early modernism" (Judith Thurman). b. Sharply defined; clear-cut: a clean outline against the sky. 6. Free from clumsiness; deft; adroit: a clean throw. 7. Devoid of restrictions or encumbrances: a clean bill of health. 8. Thorough; complete: a clean getaway. 9. Having few alterations or corrections; legible: clean manuscript. 10. Blank: a clean page. 11. a. Morally pure; virtuous: led a clean life. b. Having no marks of discredit or offense: a clean voting record. 12. Fit for all readers, listeners, or audiences; not ribald or obscene: a clean joke. 13. Honest or fair: a clean fighter; a clean competition. 14. Slang a. Not carrying concealed weapons or drugs. b. Innocent of a suspected crime. 15. Informal a. Free from narcotics addiction. b. Showing no evidence of using banned or performance-enhancing substances: proven to be clean before the race. So to use the word "clean" is really ambiguous as a negative connotation for many people. "Mishandled", "abrasively cleaned or abraded" and so forth might be more precise.
That question right there is why I have always said that the qualifying adjective/s - harshly or improperly - must be used.
If I had to define it as it relates to numismatics, I would say any process used for the removal of any debris not originally part of the surface, which accumulated through time, mis-handling, or other means both natural and artificial; by use of any chemical designed specifically for said process, utilizing any instrument for assisting in the process.
Here's one I've seen debated on this forum before: Is dipping considered cleaning, or is it something different entirely?
A MS64 dipped coin is considered market acceptable. A VF35 dipped coin is normally considered improperly cleaned. A acetone rinse of either coin would be considered proper conservation of both coins. Just adding a little fuel to the fire in the early morning.
From experience I can tell you that if you clean always be aware that you may bring out problems with the coin that you likely had no idea were there. Also, if I am viewing a coin the first thing I look for is halos around the stars on silver dollars. Sure sign the coin has been cleaned. High spots on most others that also leave the halo. Finally, if there is a lot of wear and the coin is shiny..guess what? Been Cleaned. From those observations I then decide if I am going to make an offer. I may be looking at the coin 1 day or 100 years later from the cleaning and don't know if the person had cleaned the coin because of making it look pretty or was sincerely using some chemical to save the coin. Regardless, in the present I will have to make a decision on purchase and may pass based solely on what I see now for whatever the reason was "to clean". Just some things to think about before you break out the 000 Brillo Pad.
I would say yes. If it removes debris that otherwise would not be present, nor was intended to be present at the time of manufacture, dipping is cleaning as doing so is done to remove, for the most part, tarnish from silver coins.
No in regards to the polishing and cleaning. They are different. You may possibly clean a coin without disturbing the original condition. Say soap and a mild detergent...However polishing and whizzing are certainly going to damage the coin. Almost all polishing will scratch silver and gold to name a few metals.
Polishing coins makes it look like you're trying to pass the coin off as a better grade than it is. Cleaning (to some degree) can do the the same.
Yes, of course it's cleaning. But it is important to note that dipping can be considered as harsh cleaning too. Done correctly dipping is cleaning. Done incorrectly and dipping is harsh cleaning. Not always, in either case. An MS64 coin can be over-dipped and it is no longer market acceptable. A VF35 coin that is toned black can be dipped, properly, and still be graded as VF, and properly so, as VF35. Polishing maybe, but not always. Whizzing - never.
Polishing; however, is a form of cleaning. Like polishing the silverware, you're cleaning the tarnish and any other debris off.
People's intent is usually for one of two reasons. Either they want to improve the appearance of the coin, or the value of the coin. Most of the time, the result is negative for both. Whizzing and polishing are either the result of ignorance, or preying on other people's ignorance. I foolishly and unknowingly bought polished coins in the past. Good thing for me silver has increased in price, or I'd really be in the hole. And to answer the original question; my definition of cleaned: if you have to include it in the description of the coin, it has been done improperly.
