hi folks. i'm sure it's common to think one's own slabbed coins deserve higher grades. over the years i've acquired several, particularly morgans, that i wonder if one day i'll get around to resubmitting to pcgs. but i was looking at some gold coins after some years and wonder if some of them were actually represented correctly - especially recognizing that pcgs is more restrictive with regard to higher grades. i know the idea of grading from photos leaves lots to be desired, but perhaps people are interested in giving it a try? this $2.50 liberty is in an NGC holder. the reverse does indeed have those lines above the eagle which i did not see before i took the photo this $2.50 indian is in a numistrust holder - seems perfect but not "sharp" yet as in many cases, one grade higher would make a nice difference here. i will try to take a better photo of the obverse - the message forum is not letting me upload the better one i already took. edited i didn't take it out of the 2x2 - lots of bag marks or knock-around marks. the reverse is lustrous but also marked up. it's clean enough that i don't think it was hand-handled too much though her face does show wear. an AU50? so i wonder if people can determine the grades of the slabbed coins from the mediocre photos, and also would anybody help me grade the $20 piece? i would also find it interesting if people shared photos of other graded coins for others to guess grades and discuss reasons to tick it up or down on the 70 point scale. thanks for any thoughts!
i still can't upload that alternative photo for the $2.5 indian - it is no bigger than other files, and i can't upload even the same photos i already uploaded ... perhaps i reached a maximum for the day - sorry!
i'll post the slab grades tomorrow. hint - the indian is graded higher than the liberty. but if that's really a hint i don't know!
No, the reason you can't upload any more pics is because the forum default limit is a maximum of 5 pictures per post.
Regarding grades - the '91 $2.50, the coin looks like it was either lightly cleaned or it received some rough handling at some point. This is indicated by the fine lines on the obv behind the head and above the head. And on the rev by the fine lines above the eagle. The eagle's head, neck, and parts of the shield, also look like they may have some very light wear. But I'd have to see the coin in hand to say one one way or the other. There is also a large, broken scratch on the reverse. For me, this, coupled with the fine lines on the coin would be reason for the coin to receive no grade. But, the TPGs don't always see it that way, and sometimes they do. So this coin could be in a slab that says anything from AU Details to MS64. I see no way it could have ever graded higher than that. The Indian, I cannot even estimate a grade based on those pics. The $20, I'd say XF at best based on the obv pic.
i hereby resolve never to bother you with photos i take with my little bedside lamp - best to wait until daylight and supplement with something off to the side - i could have and should have provided better. the liberty is graded by NGS as AU58. like i said, she seems pristine to me though her face lacks a bit of sharpness to my eye, but i did not think the contact marks to the background were evidence of anything too rough. i know that bag marks to morgans are par for the course, and to a certain extent, at certain not highest grades they might even be "overlooked" - i figured these contact marks might be "overlooked" with regards to whether this is "uncirculated" - but again, i do think her face might show wear. it wasn't until i took the photos that i saw the scratches on the reverse. the one on the side looks worse than the scritch-scratch above, and then i looked again and couldn't discern either. they are definitely there, but they are also that shallow, depending on the angle, etc. but i guess significant enough to result in an AU instead of an UNC grade. the indian head is graded MS62 by numistrust - it's got all the details and is problem free. i know it isn't the most exquisite specimen, but wonder if it should be a 63. the price difference is quite significant. ultimately, and the $20, i agree - it was wishful thinking that it was AU. if it were just bag marks i'd argue it, but the lady's been handled. thanks for considering those!
Personally on the 1911 I see an AU, but with grading today who knows. Btw even going from 62 to PCGS 62 is a big leap in value. Numistrust 62's do not bring PCGS 62 money as far as I know.
here's an odd angle on the indian ... the coin appears to me to be a weak strike, but otherwise details are sharp ... so do you think this coin was ever MS65? or do you think maybe it was born this way?
To me the grade on the 2.5 Liberty seems right. Just a bit of wear on the lock above the ear, on her nose, and on the eagles beak. But what I think clinches it is the wear to the fields behind her head. For the Indian, I would say AU58 from a top tpg. Light wear on the cheek, headband and browline. But these are real tough to grade. IIRC, there was a member here who cracked one from a 62 holder to put in his album, then resubmitted it later and they graded it AU55. Most people would ignore the grade on an NTC holder. I think the $20 could go AU50 - decent wear, but still has some luster.
Classic NGC AU 58, maybe 55. High point and field rub are the giveaways. Would probably grade lower at PCGS, as they tend to have quite a different view on coins in these grades. Word to the wise: Be careful with NGC AU coins. Numistrust probably called that indian mint state, but it appears anything but to NGC/PCGS standards -- altered surfaces or AU at best. Where's the luster? The double eagle looked low end AU. However, the wear pattern on the head and amount of luster look "odd" to me for that issue. Hmmm... IMO, of course. And now one for you... What do you think PCGS said about this coin? It's been there twice and came back the same way both times:
nice photo - how'd you do that?!? all the details are sharp, even the stars look pointy, except, like jcak said, wear to liberty herself. by definition i'd say that means almost uncirculated, so AU58.
hm - that's why it lacked lustre, huh? the surface was obviously lacking but not something i took into consideration at all. in another thread i made the inappropriate suggestion regarding retoning coins - i doubt that would restore a compromised surface, but i bet it is worth cleaning common coins and experimenting with retoning to compare surfaces. i haven't done that yet, but have been intending to try the egg yolk technique with a silver dime. of course a valuable gold coin is a different animal altogether, not something to mess with.
I give the saint a MS grade. no wear on the reverse that I can see and not dinged up. sometimes Ms Liberty's face is just not as well struck. still it's just not the same from pics as holding coin in hand to give good grade estimate.
