My grandpa found this while removing brush with a scythe. Which explains the large nick in it.<br><br>I am pretty sure it's made out of silver. Too soft to be lead. <br><br>Anyway, this is a counterfeiter's die, used to make fake morgan dollars. They would use a lead jar lid to make one, and plate it with silver.<br><br>He wanted to know.<br><br>1. How common is it to find one of these?<br>2. What are they worth, approximately?<br><br> My question is, how did they make these? <br><br>
Looks like he found a set of counterfeit dies that were used to make contemporary counterfeit cast coins. That's a pretty cool find (although I think it may be illegal to own them).
If the OP's grandfather found counterfeit Morgan Dollar dies, why is the design incused/concave? Wouldn't the "coin", when struck, create relief of the design elements on the surfaces by the striking of negative dies? I think the coin may have been "struck" by an authentic Morgan Dollar... Possibly by setting one Morgan Dollar atop another Morgan Dollar and simply hitting them with a hammer. Just my opinion... -Brian
That's how dies work. What is incuse on a die is raised on the coin. On a Morgan Dollar the lettering, the numerals in the date, Liberty, and the eagle are all raised so they would need to be incuse on the die.
Ohhhhhhh, alright. Sorry... I had a totally different idea of what the OP's question was. I thought this was a coin that he/she believed was struck by counterfeit dies. Maybe I should have read the title thoroughly... :foot-mouth: -Brian
It can't be a die, not with the obverse and reverse on opposite sides of the same piece. I think someone made a "coin" by squeezing a piece of lead between two genuine dollars. You say it is too soft to be lead, but lead is much softer than silver, so that is most likely what it is.
+1. That makes sense... The metal used for dies at official coin-minting facilities must be tough enough (texture wise) to withstand multiple strikings. It cannot be an even slightly maliable metal (like this coin/die looks to be) or else the coin wouldn't be struck correctly and dies would rapidly weaken. Wouldn't a counterfeiter want good results? -Brian
I don't know if it is indeed silver. All I know is that it is NOT lead. Lead would easily bend with my fingers. I could not even bend it with my hands. It is a counterfeiter's die. I have found the fake dollars they have made with them before.
Detecto, I agree the counterfeiter probably struck or pressed a genuine coin (or coins - see below) into the soft lead to produce the die that you have there. What I was trying to convey is that the die that you have there was probably used to cast a counterfeit coin. I hope that is clear. Why would the counterfeiter make a double-sided die? My guess would be that he made a pair of dies (i.e., two dies) so that he could use the two dies to cast a single counterfeit coin. All he would need to do it get two genuine Morgan Dollars, place his lead between the two coins and either strike or press the coins into the soft lead.
