Questions on coinshow etiquette.

So I've been to a couple coin shows, and have some questions on coinshow etiquette. I have read before about not bringing open bags, respecting a transaction in progress, not reaching for coins ect... common sense stuff. But what about me carrying my lists and greysheets with me? What if I walk around and lookup every coin in my redbook? I mean as for the lists, that is a guarentee... I guess I could make notes off to the side of what I'm willing to pay for each coin on my list according to grade, but chances are I'm going to want to have my greysheet. Since I am not on a personal level with these dealers do I really want to disrespect them with a lowball offer? I certainly don't want to ruin any future transactions by giving them a negative impression about me. How about asking a lot of questions? If there is nobody around is it considered taboo for me to drool over a coin for 10-20 minutes before purchase? Thanks. Totally different world than ebay.

 

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I've worked shows for 5 years now. I can't tell you how many people carry greysheets and redbooks with them. Although, you have to remember graysheets are mainly for dealers and you are at a place full of dealers. So don't expect to get exactly what they're priced at in the sheets. Also, just lists of what you want never seems to a problem. I have countless guys arrive and request only what is on their list and if you don't have 3 or more they just move on to the next table. It annoys some dealers but never bothers me.
I think you're idea of a list and what you're willing to pay for each item would work best. That is what I use to do. I actually just put them all in my cell phone so the dealer never really knew what I was doing. Maybe just texting a friend or what have you. I also created a small spreadsheet of the greysheet with stars next to what I needed for my sets and uploaded right into my phone. It came in handy and I still use it today. That and the online photograde by PCGS. I am not sure if there is a precise "etiquette" but this never seems to be an issue with me or other dealers at the show.

 

What exactly does that mean "greysheets are for dealers?" Does that mean they buy in bulk, and are getting a wholesale discount? Or does it mean these are the market prices needed to pay in order to generate a profit? I am not trying to be smug here, just wondering what entitlement does a "dealer" have to pay less for a coin than I do? I have a few auctions on ebay, does this make me a dealer? Thanks.

 

They are not exactly just for dealers but mainly that are the prices they are willing to pay versus the full retail of the redbook. They are at the coin shows to make profits. Most dealers do buy in bulk and I even know some that will only pay 10% back of greysheet bid. I guess it just depends on the person but basically any price guide is just that. A guide in which the coin is worth but of course each coin may have characteristics in which it would be worth more or less.

 

I think the definition of a coin dealer is one that does it continually as a main source of profit and income.

 

Dealers may look at you as more of a newbie if you look up coins in your Red Book.

The prices in the Grey Sheet are wholesale prices. They are dealer-to-dealer prices. Dealers buy at wholesale and sell at retail. Unless you are a dealer you should not expect to buy coins from a dealer at Grey Sheet (i.e., wholesale) prices. Rather you should expect to pay closer to retail.

 

I understand. Thanks for the clarification. I understand they have to pay for fees associated with table rent, traveling fees, ect... It can see where a keen eye and expertise on grading with higher dollar coins could really make or break someone.

 

That's exactly it. Like a 1916s mercury that is actually an 1916D in a junk bin.

 

Exactly. Not much replaces experience and knowledge, actually come to think of it nothing replaces knowledge. Knowledge is a dealer and a collector's ace in the hole. Lots of collectors can cherry pick items off of knowledgable dealers because a dealer cannot be an expert in everything. However, the more prosperous dealers you would be surprised on how many areas they ARE true experts. Of all of the successful dealers I know, every single one of them have in depth, heavy knowledge in the fields they cover. I am talking they have or could write a book on the series, and can quickly point out where the standard books are wrong, what coins are more common or scarce than generally believed, etc.

Let me talk about ancients. Lets assume we are dealing with a traditional vest pocket dealer, a normal table dealer, and a firm like CNG. I have gotten lots of great deals off vest pocket dealers who didn't really know what they had, a few off of table dealers, but not one from CNG. I may get a good price at a CNG auction, but I know for a fact they knew EXACTLY what the coin was they sold me. They are large and prosperous because they do not sell $500 coins in pick bins, or not notice a Sassanid drachm is from a rare mint and not mention it.

Chris

 

I can see myself drifting into the ancient world eventually. This history is astounding. It just seems way above my head right now. I think it would be better if I got a solid foundation in U.S. Coinage before drifting into ancients. Sometimes it seems as though ancient Greek coins require a Ph.D in itself. I hope they offer a seminar in some form or fashion on ancients during the summer seminar.

 

Greysheet is sometimes low, just as often way too high. Plus there are good for grade coins as well as overgraded and undergraded coins. I was talking to a major dealer at the Pittsburgh show on Greysheet, and he gave me more than one example where it was off by thousands, as with an MS65 Saint, I think it was the 1923 or 1922; he said you can buy those coins all day long in good holder for the low $3000s when sheet is over $5000. Don't be gullible! Even dealers often have trouble getting full sheet for many of the coins. I was talking with Doug at Heritage a while back who said that Greysheet runs a couple weeks behind their insider market pricing. Before making a significant purchase always check current auction records.

One dealer tried to hustle me at a show recently offering a $20K package "deal" for a bunch of gold coins. Half of the coins would never grade, the rest were really no great shakes.

 

If you wish to be a bullion/US coin dealer, then I would highly recommend your planned path. Ancients do not normally walk through the front door of coin stores nearly as often as US coins will.

Ancients are not as hard as you think, but it is a slightly different world. I highly recommend it for anyone granted they have the time to properly pursue it.

Chris

 

Mehh...I would try to avoid coin shows altogether.

 

At first I thought it would be rude to have a price guide, but now I find it a necessity to either have my phone which has photo grade, 2 price guides and my dollar/merc collection on it, or a coin world which my various notes it it. My phone apps are sometimes of and done update every month like a Coin World.

As far as offers once have I given one where the dealer snatched the coin away. He had a 1.5 once restrict of a James T Morgan design wanted $100 bucks was going on about how was a pattern (wasn't he clearly didn't know what it was) I looked on ebay which had a bunch other other people wanting ungodly amount. I said I would like it close to silver spot (at the time that would have been $60) and was going to offer $75 he snatched it away before I could say my true offer. Never did business with him again never will.

 

That is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. One of the great things about the larger shows is that you can find plenty of dealers who are willing to share their knowledge with you whether you buy anything or not.

Chris

 

What phone app do you use?

 

Still, though.

 

While the thread is here, I have a strange question myself about coin show etiquette.
I handle all my coins with gloves on, is it out of line to ask someone not to handle your coins without gloves on if they want to take it out of it's coin flip?

 

One dang thing that fries my cookies is when I ask a dealer for a price on a certain coin (that he's got in his allotment) and he goes running for the Grey Sheet. Turns me off every time, and I never wind up buying said coin. Ya wanna sell me somethin'? Know the danged sell price ahead of time and allow me to negotiate based on that. When I see you running for a piece of paper it tells me you ain't up to date on your stuff..........

 

That makes sense.

Chris