I've been following a certain seller on eBay, their market trends and what they are selling their coins for. As a big fan of Busts and Barbers, I can't help but see their ads because of the sheer amount of volume. I have been warned before by CT experts, and red flags now go up with this seller. First of all almost every single coin that they sell is artificially toned. Is this a problem? Maybe they have just realized and adjusted to the fact that people will buy artificially toned coins? My questions began with the toning itself. It is all the same. Whoever is doing the toning is doing it on all of the busts. Secondly, the prices that they are getting for the coins are not near the prices they could get if they were not toned. This is where it gets cloudy in my book. They are selling AU++ - MS coins that are toned for AU prices. Why would they take a hit like that? Furthermore, and my most thought provoking question is who is there source? Where are they buying these coins from? Who would sell them an MS level bust cheap enough that they could turn such a profit by selling at AU prices? Did they make an investment a long time ago and stockpile toned coins? Just wondering. If I have a question, it is very hard for me to hold back.
As long as this seller is advertising the coins in their listings as "AT", then I don't see a problem there... There are many sources for dealers to get coins at bargain prices, some that they would rather not share with the public. Most of these dealers use eBay as a second option for sale, or so I've heard, so if they are unable to sell it locally or through a source where they are not paying a 10%-15% auction fee (Which, I would assume, dealers would want to avoid). As for the prices realized, we may never know the answer to that one... It could be the photos. It could be the reputation. It could even be the lack of a detailed description. -Brian
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1819-8-Capp...72?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item43ab5e3980 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1903-Barber...27?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item43ab64694f http://www.ebay.com/itm/1886-Indian...03?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3f109d1547 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1806-Draped...56?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item415ffcc0ac http://www.ebay.com/itm/1849-Seated...10?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3f10ea9846 Man beautiful coins, wish they wouldn't have toned...
haha.. can't believe I'm gonna say this,,, but try Teletrade, you'll get better deals. The home shopping network (HSN) also has some well priced coins.
The capped bust doesn't look AT to me, but the rest don't look so nice. I've only ever bought older copper from GS Coin, only because they constantly mis-attribute them, or sell varieties not attributed at all, so deals can be found. Guy
OK, heres my 2 cents. They are artificially toned. I think we agree on that. You asked why they would do that since they aren't getting as much money as if they weren't toned. The answer is simple. They are being artificially toned to cover up problems. In this case, I would be fairly certain these coins were harshly cleaned. So the toning covers that up. That is why, for example, they are getting AU prices for toned AU coins. If they weren't toned, they would be getting VF or less prices for cleaned AU coins. Dig it?
If they are AT, and they sell don't mention that in their auctions, then how do they not get "in trouble" with eBay for misrepresentation?
Well, that's an interesting question. I do not know of anyone on ebay who actually labels their coins as AT except for one seller. That is all he sells though, are AT coins. I see plenty of other sellers who sell obviously AT coins only, and do not mention a word. I don't know what eBays take on the whole thing is. All I know is the one seller was forced to do it because eBay was pressured to make him do it. The pressure came from a sort of "coin watchdog" group the polices auctions. Greeat Southern Coin sells a lot of items, mostly "not toned" albeit they get much more then any of their coins are worth. They are not really known as "coin doctors".
I dunno, looks like the IHC and the seated dollar might be AT, but the others I'm not so sure. I'd bet ya money though the coins don't look like that in hand. I can't recall anybody in particular who has ever claimed that this seller has all AT coins. But what I think they do and what I can remember are claims that the pics are juiced - enhanced to show more color than is really there. Big difference between that and AT.
They don't get in trouble because you can't prove a coin is AT - or NT for that matter. All anybody can do is guess.
I emailed them asking if they were AT, and I got some corporate response, saying that if anyone was unsastified with their purchase, that they offer a full money back guarentee. Fair enough. I guess this is why they don't have to specify. If you look at the negative feedback there is a gentlemen that mentions artificial toning.
None of the linked coins look original to me. And I believe that typically, that seller gets better prices for uncertified coins than they would if the coins were certified. That's because the coins either wouldn't grade, or would grade out at numbers which would make them bad deals. I have also read comments about their images being juiced and/or shot in such a way so as to obscure flaws. Personally, I would avoid them.
I think the problem here is that the unless the buyer knows what to look for will never know it is AT. And after taking a quick look they never mention if the coins were doctored. I guess the only safe way to buy toned coins is to go the graded route, I hope.
Nope, it isn't. This thread - http://www.cointalk.com/t196131/ - proves that. And there are many, many, others just like it.
Wow - can't believe some of the prices they get on coins. I always wanted to get one from them just to compare to the pictures, but most never go cheap enough for me.
I agree 100%! GSC uses juiced pictures and, sorry to say, the folks buying their coins are usually making a bad mistake. I'm always surprized by how much money they get for their coins...but it's all in the pictures and presentation I guess. I also suspect most of their customers are not very good numismatists or they'd have a LOT more negative feedback.
Yes, their excellent feedback is probably primarily from unknowledgeable buyers who are happy with what they believe to be good deals. My suspicion is that many or most of them have, in fact, gotten bad deals, instead, but are unaware of it. And the same can be said of many other sellers of uncertified coins, who have great looking feedback.
I love that you can see their logos in the pictures from searches. I know to immediately skip over them. It is widely agreed their images are juiced. I agree with those who have said their buyers are likely not savvy collectors and don't know what they've bought. I also hear they are very good about refunds, which helps keep their feedback so high. My advice is to move on. Lance.
What makes you think any of those are AT? They all look natural to me, especially the 1819/8 CBH. The toning is in the crease of the raised devices on both sides, which is something that you could not artificially do. Most AT that I know are exposing the silver coins to moisture to promote toning, intentionally placing it on or in something with any material that causes toning, like hydrogen sulfide, or exposing it to heat.
