Government Tracking of Thieves

I was talking to one of the dealers who lost six figures in coins and bullion a few months ago to thieves, at a coin show this weekend. We were talking about how the police could more effectively nail criminals and thieves in the New York area, where they seem to be getting bolder.

What could be done to take the enforcement to the next level? Surely the police have advanced computer technology, possibly with satellite and cell-phone based tracking of individuals and vehicles. If a coin dealer said he was robbed at 1:35pm and 30 seconds with very precise co-ordinates, could they ID and then track a vehicle that was at that location, through their technologies? Supposedly satellites can read the newspaper on a fair day.

Also, how effective are the grading services when they get reports of stolen coins? Are the digital images sufficient to ID coins? NGC is apparently photo IDing most of their coins now.

Thanks for the feedback on this.

 

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wouldn't slabbed coins be identified by a serial number on the slab? of course, the thief could bust them out.

 

Or even disguise the coin's appearance through doctoring. It would certainly be possible for the grading services to place some sort of readable ID the size of a micron on the edge of the coin that would not bother anyone.

 

Maybe for the high value coins, they could use some sort of RFI device on the back of the slabs. They have RFI on the barcodes of gillette razors and they have a surprising amount of information. I would go as far as having a GPS device installed in my safe. I am surprised that there was no armed security at the last coin show I was at. I have been to a home poker game where there was security. I think if I were moving big time coins, I would hire security or go in a buddy pair. As for an expensive collection that is at home and not a safety deposit box, I'd get motion sensing cameras (40 bucks a piece). As well as keep a fierce dog, and maybe even a firearm. Just some brain-storming.

 

At the baltimore Whitman coin show I was talking to a high dollar dealer about thefts related to shows. He told me a dealer he knew was held up with a sawed off shotgun and lost a $5,000,000.00 coin set attributed to Andrew Jackson. He said the set would be very difficult to sell because of its uniqueness. Now the dealer hires Brinks Service to pick up his coins and deliver them to shows then return to coins to his home base.

 

Why not just insure your collection as short term solution :smile For long term yes i do wonder why mints continue issuing CoA (which can be easily forged or bought from bay) rather than inscribe microscopic unique token id into coins.

 

It would be really hard to track any collectible item whether it was stolen or not. Placing a tracking device on the coin would be considered damaging it. And anything in the slab once cracked is basically worthless.

 

That's only because the CIA is too cheap to pay for a subscription.

NOTE: It's my guess that satellite imagery capabilities like this are more theatrical hype rather than fact.

Chris

 

I wonder how many cases where dealers do have insurance and get robbed. theft can take many forms.

If I was a dealer, I would have an escort from my parked car to the show and back.

I can't stand thieves.

 

TPG's are not effective at all I'd think as you just crack them out. Except maybe PCGS's Secure Plus. If you had a lot of them and they all got cracked out then resubmitted again they could tell and would help with probable cause I'd think.

As for "taking the law enforcement to the next level", I'm not much for most of that. I think they are obtrusive enough. It seems all the stuff they do either takes away innocent peoples security and privacy. And/or is obtrusive and makes non thieves feel like they do something wrong. I sold some coins the other day and they had to copy my ID? Why I did nothing wrong. I even heard that you get fingerprinted some places. It's the thieves that need the fingerprints taken lol

 

For your reference: Some links to consider for thefts involving art/antiques/coins...

• Numismatic Crimes: numismaticcrimes.org/

• Forgery Network: forgerynetwork.com/

• Museum Security: museum-security.org/

• Interpol: Interpol International - Crime areas: Works of art

 

Duke: It's rather common practice in pawn shops that they require a copy of an ID and will even take a security camera snap shot of people selling things to their stores to protect against buying stolen property. That way there's a person's image and ID matched if a problem arises and authorities come looking for someone or need to find a suspect in an investigation. If you are an honest seller then there's no reason to worry about what the shop is doing to protect themselves and the community by this measure. If it's a problem for you and you are an honest guy ( I think you are anyway... :yes then you could always hold a garage sale or try to sell at a swap meet, but it seems the more routes one takes to avoid giving ID and personal information, the nearer one gets to the arena of dubiousness.

 

Let me ask a slightly different question: How can I avoid handling stolen coins unknowingly? An unscrupulous dealer buys some stolen rare gold coins that have been busted out of their holders. He then offers the coins to the first interested party at a substantial discount to actual value. I buy them, get them certified and sell them to a wholesaler. Is there anything I could do to connect the dots for law enforcement so that they have something to go on?

 

why not use brinks to ship your coins. if you loose $500,000 in coins your are a fool who asked for it. i do antique furniture shows.through out our set up day you can see brinks bring the jewelry to the dealers. brinks will bring it from your house to the show and home again.
if you have gold coins that get stolen most likely they will be melted. once it is melted the proof of a crime is gone.in today's time if you leave a convention center with a large value of coins on your person. your lucky if you get home alive.

 

When people think of Brinks they think of big bucks to pay for their services, any idea how much they charge?

Plus, it didn't help Heritage:

DALLAS, TX – A Brinks shipment from Professional Coin Grading Service to Heritage Auctions on October 17th was apparently broken into, and the finest known 1870-CC $20 stolen. The coin is graded AU58 by Numismatic Guaranty Corporation and carries NGC Certification ID 3414402-001.
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“When we opened the Brinks bag, it was evident that the shipping box had been sliced open, and the PCGS box within was empty,” said Paul Minshull COO of Heritage. “We immediately called PCGS, who confirmed that their security surveillance video showed that the box and package with the coin were shipped as usual and in good order. At that point, we contacted Brinks security and our insurance company, and their investigations have started. We have also reached out to the FBI.” “In my 29 years at Heritage I have not heard of a coin loss in a Brink shipment before,” said Minshull, “so this is an extremely rare incident.”
The 1870-CC $20 rarity was only recently discovered and sent to Heritage for auction. According to Heritage President Greg Rohan, it was slated to go into the FUN Platinum Night auction in Orlando in January 2012.
“While the coin is fully covered under our insurance, this is about more than money. It’s really about what we hope will be just a temporary loss of a numismatic treasure,” Rohan said. “This rarity was not only newly discovered and the finest known, but it was a gorgeous coin and the best ever seen in the marketplace.”

 

Liberty does carry a price. Ever wonder why there is lower crime rates in Totalitarian States.

 

Is there a good site to cross check possibly stolen coins with specific images?