question about wiping coins

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by pwwright74, Nov 9, 2011.

  1. pwwright74

    pwwright74 New Member

    Greetings all,

    I'm new to this site and am also new to coin collecting. I have a possibly silly and/or anal question to present to you guys about something I believe I did wrong. I recently purchased two Morgans (not encapsulated), both of which were advertised as being in the uncirculated or MS 60-63 range in terms of grading. The other night, before storing them in capsules, I decided to gently wipe them off with a new lens cloth (dry lens cloth used for eye ware, thinking that that would be safe. I knew beforehand that it was taboo to "clean" coins, but I assumed that was cleaning with abrasives or with chemicals, but I didn't consider wiping to be "cleaning." But I read after the fact that even wiping the coins can cause minute scratches that can detract from the value. These coins are really not THAT high in value - both are in around the $65 range - and one of them already has a visible scratch on the reverse side. Also, both already had some other wear and small scratches here and there. Do you think I caused that much damaged or compromised their value further? Many thanks in advance for your help and input.

    Paul
     
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  3. rodeoclown

    rodeoclown Dodging Bulls

    You probably didn't cause much damage unless you rubbed with a lot of extra force. You wouldn't likely notice unless you got out a magnifying glass as well.
     
  4. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The first rule of coin collecting is to never touch the surface of a coin with anything - anything ! There is no cloth that is soft enough, there is no brush that is fine enough, there is no anything that will not leave traces on the coin.

    And I don't care if you read a thousand reports from people who claim to have wiped a coin with this or that or whatever and claim that they cannot see any traces - they are wrong. If they truly can't see anything then they don't know what they are looking at.
     
  5. pwwright74

    pwwright74 New Member

    So how much damage could this have caused? A full grade? A few points?
     
  6. Taxidermist

    Taxidermist Collector of US/IL/RU/DE

    Your uncirculated or MS 60-63 range Morgans got WEAR and scratches?

    :eek:

    You might need to shows some photos.
     
  7. Hobo

    Hobo Squirrel Hater

    If the coins have wear they cannot be uncirculated.
     
  8. pwwright74

    pwwright74 New Member

    Yes, it's an 1881 Morgan advertised on Amazon marketplace as "uncirculated." Paid $60 for it. When I got it there was a scratch on the reverse side.
     
  9. rodeoclown

    rodeoclown Dodging Bulls

    Were they professionally graded or is that just how they were advertised? I'd say return them if they came with a very noticeable scratch on them, that's not MS quality.
     
  10. Hobo

    Hobo Squirrel Hater

    I would not think that would be possible after he has damaged (wiped) the coins. Had he not damaged (wiped) the coins then maybe he could return them.
     
  11. pwwright74

    pwwright74 New Member

    This particular one was not advertised as being MS quality, but as being "brilliant uncirculated." Was $60 too much for this item?

    The other coin, without the visible scratch, was advertized as being somewhere in the MS 60-63 range and that was around $69.

    No, these were not graded.
     
  12. pwwright74

    pwwright74 New Member

    @Hobo, so you think they were damaged by me wiping them?
     
  13. LindeDad

    LindeDad His Walker.

    At best you made them into AU coins that most often trade at about their melt value. So yes you hurt the value by about half.
     
  14. rodeoclown

    rodeoclown Dodging Bulls

    If the noticeable scratch was already there though without wiping it, I doubt they would notice unless they have before up close very detailed pictures of the item to compare if it was returned. A lens cloth is likely not going to make any scratches noticeable by the naked eye, unless like I said before, he added some super extra force. We're not sure of the damage though and can't assume how much since we didn't see the coins before or after, so I think you're jumping the gun on such assumption of damage.
     
  15. pwwright74

    pwwright74 New Member

    But the one coin with the already visible scratch on it - that would made the coin into AU at best, would it not? What I did is nowhere near what was already done to it!
     
  16. rodeoclown

    rodeoclown Dodging Bulls

    Also, since they were not graded or apparently slabbed to be sent/shipped, he could claim he did not receive goods as they advertised. I'm 100% they could be returned without issue and without them probably even raising the question that he took a lens cloth to them.
     
  17. rodeoclown

    rodeoclown Dodging Bulls

    Exactly what I am trying to tell you. ;)
     
  18. Collect89

    Collect89 Coin Collector

    Your question about wiping the Morgan dollars has brought up more questions about accurately grading & understanding the state of coin preservation. If you do not already have a grading guide, I would recommend either the ANA grading book or PCGS Grading book or one of the photograde books. These can all be found on Amazon for very low cost.

    Is it possible that you could attend a local coin show & inspect several 1881 and 1881S coins for grade & price? You will probably find dozens of examples of this year offered in different MS grades & prices. It might be good to compare your new purchases to those coins offered for sale at the show.

    It would be nice to see a photo of your new Morgans. If they are uncirculated, you should be able to move them around under good lighting & not see significant breaks in the luster in the fields. Big breaks in the luster caused by many small contacts (& rubs) in the fields is an indication that the coin has experienced some circulation. Do not rub the surface with anything as it can impair the luster.
    Larger contact marks caused by heavy coin contact in bags is normal on uncirculated Morgan dollars. The location & severity of the contact marks will affect the uncirculated grade of the coin. (i.e. MS60 to MS70)
     
  19. Tylercw7

    Tylercw7 Member

    yeah i agree id try and send em back if it were me
     
  20. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    I completely hear what you are saying Doug, yet it needs to be clarified/modified. What you say is completely true for coins that are made in the last few hundred years. I just want to point out for medieval or ancient bronze with a patina its ok to wipe them. I have looked at coins under 16/32x stereo magnification before and after wiping, scratching with bamboo, even scratching with brass, and the patina that forms on ancient bronze is not the wimpy little modern patina. Even silver hardens with age and is unaffected by wiping. I have been too scared to wipe my ancient and medieval gold, so I cannot comment.

    I know this post is about a Morgan, and probably 99.9% of collectors here it is applicable to, I just wanted to clarify for the .1% of my peeps. :)

    Chris
     
  21. pwwright74

    pwwright74 New Member

    @rodeoclown - thanks, I was addressing the other comment(s) when writing that. :)
     
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