Just In.... Flanders Gold

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by silvereagle82, May 5, 2006.

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  1. silvereagle82

    silvereagle82 World Gold Collector

    My newest purchase just arrived.:eek:hya: I hope you enjoy the photos. The coin has such nice old gold toning.

    Netherlands / Flanders
    1346-1384 Franc a' cheval
    Count Louis De Male

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    silvereagle82, May 5, 2006
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Gorgeous !!

    Congrats on the new acquisition :high5: I know you waited a looooooong time for that one.
     
    GDJMSP, May 5, 2006
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  4. Pepperoni

    Pepperoni Senior Member

    Lust

    A coin like that evokes lust, that is art.

    Floyd
     
    Pepperoni, May 5, 2006
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  5. YNcoinpro_U.S.

    YNcoinpro_U.S. New Member

    Beautiful piece of art, history, gold and of course coinage
    congrats and looks gorgeous
     
    YNcoinpro_U.S., May 6, 2006
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  6. Mikjo0

    Mikjo0 Numismatist

    silvereagle,
    I hate you.....:smile.....NICE!!
     
    Mikjo0, May 6, 2006
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  7. Bonedigger

    Bonedigger New Member

    Jeez... WONDEFUL, Just Wonderful :)

    B
     
    Bonedigger, May 6, 2006
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  8. Aidan Work

    Aidan Work New Member

    Flanders is in Belgium,not the Netherlands.

    Aidan.
     
    Aidan Work, May 6, 2006
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  9. Mikjo0

    Mikjo0 Numismatist

    You're right Aidan but I decided to find out if this was always the case and found this in Wikipedia:

    "The precise geographical area denominated by Flanders has changed a great deal over the centuries.
    In the Middle Ages, the term Flanders was applied to an area in western Europe, the County of Flanders, spread over:
    * France :
    o- a part of what is now the Nord département (Nord-Pas de Calais), in north-eastern France, often called French Flanders or sometimes even South-Flanders.
    * Belgium :
    o- the area that is now approximately the Flemish provinces of East Flanders and West Flanders
    o- the french-speaking area at the west of the Scheldt river, called Tournaisis (from the flemish town Tournai)
    * Netherlands :
    o- a part of what is now Zeeland in south-western Netherlands, called Zeeuws-Vlaanderen.

    The significance of the County and its counts eroded through time, but the designation remained in a very broad sense. In the Early Modern, the term Flanders was associated to the southern part of the Low Countries, the Southern Netherlands. The term Walloon Flanders corresponds to the French-speaking Flemish region around Mons."
     
    Mikjo0, May 6, 2006
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  10. crispy1995

    crispy1995 Spending Toms like crazy**

    Stupid Flanders! :D
     

    Attached Files:

    crispy1995, May 6, 2006
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  11. silvereagle82

    silvereagle82 World Gold Collector

    Mikjo0,Thanks for the brief history on Flanders.

    Adian, some dealers and reference books list Flanders under Belguim some Netherlands. I think mikjo0 cleared up why there is all the confusion:thumb:

    Edited: Adian I did check and on GDJSMP's Franc a' cheval, NGC has it referenced as Belguim. I stand corrected. Thanks
     
    silvereagle82, May 6, 2006
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  12. Aidan Work

    Aidan Work New Member

    No problem,the Flemings have their own language,which is very close to Dutch.That is why Flanders is in Belgium,not the Netherlands.

    Aidan.
     
    Aidan Work, May 6, 2006
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  13. De Orc

    De Orc Well-Known Member

    I'm drooling n green with envy :D That is beutiful it realy is .

    De Orc :D
     
    De Orc, May 7, 2006
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  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator


    Today it is - then it was not, especially since Belgium didn't even exist at the time.

    So it is entirely correct to say this coin is from the Netherlands - which by the way means Low Countries. And Flanders was definitely one of the Low Countires. If you wish, you can also read this article on Wikkipedia - HERE. There you will also see that Flanders was one of the 17 provinces which was reperesented when the "Estates General of the Netherlands" met for governmental purposes. That pretty much nails it down for me.

    But if you wish to be entirely correct, this coin was issued under the auspices and authority of the King of France. So it would also be correct to say this was a French coin. Of course that should be obvious given the reason that the coin was struck to begin with - to pay the ransom for the French King.
     
    GDJMSP, May 7, 2006
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  15. silvereagle82

    silvereagle82 World Gold Collector

    Thanks for your further clarifcation ....
    The French King in which the ransom was being raised was that Jean II le Bon ??
     
    silvereagle82, May 7, 2006
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  16. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Yes, it was.
     
    GDJMSP, May 7, 2006
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  17. silvereagle82

    silvereagle82 World Gold Collector

    Doug,
    One thing I just noticed about the Flanders Franc a' cheval......
    the lions on the horse's armor (blanket), it is the coat of arms for the House of Habsburg,
    Its easier to see on your example.... GDJMSP has a NGC MS-64 of this coin at http://www.cointalk.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=6&c=5
    Amazing all the little details in these coins:)
     
    silvereagle82, May 7, 2006
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  18. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    It's close, but not quite the same. Here is a link to the various Habsburg arms - HERE The Habsburg Lion faces right while the Flanders lion faces left.

    In later years the area did come under the rule of the Habsburgs. And no doubt, due to familial ties of the European Royals, the arms of various nations & states were quite often very similar to one another. And with marriage and inheritance the arms were often transferred from family to another.
     
    GDJMSP, May 7, 2006
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  19. silvereagle82

    silvereagle82 World Gold Collector

    silvereagle82, May 7, 2006
    #18 + Quote Reply
  20. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I understand. However, this is an example of the problem I have with Wikipedia from time to time. This is what it says about that picture -


    Description of the picture
    This picture shows coats of arms of counts of Habsburg until Rudolph the first (1218 † 1291). Then, they were used by Leo VI (1342 † 1396), king of Armenia.

    It's a blazon done for Blazon Project of French-speaking Wikipédia


    Origin of picture
    Its description comes from : Jiri Louda, Michael Maclagan, Les Dynasties d'Europe, ISBN 2-04-027013-2

    Picture drawn by Odejea on October 2005, the 19th

    Three-dimensional effect rendered with Blender and file Blason vide.blend


    So, this picture was produced by using the clipart software provided by Wikipedia which can be found - HERE.

    Now then, I might be wrong as I am far from an expert on medieval heraldry. But the link I provided is to a photograph of an actual manuscript from the time period. And I would be more inclined to trust the images from the manuscript than I would those images produced by contirbutors to Wikipedia using clipart software.

    Anyway, just my opinion.
     
    GDJMSP, May 7, 2006
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  21. Mikjo0

    Mikjo0 Numismatist

    also silvereagle,yours appears to have an eagle sitting on the lion's tail...facing right.What's the deal with that?:rolling:
     
    Mikjo0, May 8, 2006
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