Replace the paper dollar with coin article

Had to check that one, indeed it does not say "ONE DOLLAR", but it does say "$1" on the reverse

 

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19Lyds,

No, I don't believe that your post was a personal attack, but rather your opinion on the subject. I agree that my interpretation is different from yours, but there is substance to both arguments. While I believe that yours is flawed based upon your interpretation of the facts and how you think eliminating the dollar bill will pull the country out of a financial turmoil, you find fault in my arguments backed by articles I have read in Numismatic News and other coinage-related publications. Sure, some of them are biased, but they show that those sort of sentiments are out there among the American public. Since you decided to critique my post, I believe it is only fair to critique yours:

"A dollar coin is just as easy to "use" as a paper bill since most folks do not really care as long as the change received is correct and as long as its spendable at the next store they visit. Receiving a silver bullion slug that has a value of $30 just isn't the same as receiving a ten and a twenty.

As for carrying lots of change? A fairly baseless argument intended to dupe folks that don't or won't give it some rational thought. NOBODY carries "lot's of change" and everybody will swap out change as soon as its convenient. This includes one dollar bills for fives or ten's.

As for the "wallet"? For me its a non-issue since I carry a wallet for my identifying papers ONLY. I haven't carried bills in my wallet since losing it the first time. Bills go in the pocket along with the coins."

This seems to reflect your personal choice rather than the idea that someone in Congress would make the choice for you. No one I know carries coinage in their pockets for a long period of time. Most will look at it, maybe go through it, and then either trade it in or place it in a jar in their house. This holds true for the dollar coin. You use it most days for tolls, but what about on average days for an average American. Would the coin be easier to use with its ability to more easily fall out of one's pocket, or get lost compared to a paper bill? I believe it would.

You talk about swapping dollars for $5's and $10's. First off, you talk about change and then bills, so your argument lacks clarity in that respect. You assert that the majority of the American public simply deal with higher denominational bills, so there shouldn't be a dollar bill. In rebuttal, this argument contradicts your argument for an increase of dollar coins. You originally stated that no one carries lots of change around, yet this argument of "cashing up" would make the average person carry more dollar coins in order to achieve this. Additionally, while I believe that the value in the single American dollar has declined, it still has some purchasing power and people still use it.

The wallet argument is once again a personal choice and most people I know carry either that or a money clip instead of having their money roll around loosely in their pockets.

"Coins sitting in bank vaults has NOTHING to do with whether or not folks "want" or "look" for them and has EVERYTHING to do with what RETAILERS order for making change at the register. Folks could really care less and after a year or so, won't care at all. The thing they really care about is whether or not it will spend when they need to spend it.
Coins in bank vaults represents a choice and the elimination of the dollar bill eliminates the "choice". True, most folks will "choose" the dollar bill over the coin but the coin is still a buck and 10 of them will still get you a ten dollar bill at any bank or store. Eliminate the choice AND save some money, then you eliminate the problems."

Coins sitting in bank vaults DO have a correlation to the wants and needs of the American public. Retailers will not order change when they know that the customers do not want it, the retailer will sit on it, or it will take up too much room for safekeeping. Dollar bills are stackable and do not have the weight of a bag of dollar coins. Retailers simply do not want to have to deal with the hassle. Additionally, retailers do not want to spend the extra effort in ordering new trays to hold money in registers, nor spend money or time training additional staff with dollar coins and what to look for.

You state that most people will "choose the dollar bill over the coin", so I believe that you validated my point that most Americans do not want to see it eliminated against their will. You forget that many coins that were forced upon the public for one reason or another faded into obscurity. If the dollar coin is forced on the public, the outcry will reverse the decision such as it did in minting the 2 cent, 3 cent and half dime denominations. Again, there has been talk in Congress in repealing the Presidential dollar Act, so I think that speaks for itself. http://vitter.senate.gov/public/ind...ecord_id=4850fb47-c4dd-2074-b4e9-80e5a92c55a2 an excerpt: “Even though many in Congress, including myself, hoped that dollar coins would eventually save taxpayers money, it’s turned out to be one of those unnecessary and, quite frankly, wasteful programs that we should eliminate,” Vitter said. “Banks and credit unions are increasingly returning the dollar coins to the Federal Reserve because people don’t want them and aren’t using them. So the most sensible thing to do is for Congress to quit spending taxpayer dollars producing and storing the unwanted coins.” This is one opinion out of many in Congress.

Reason 3 I received from NPR based upon a statement that was received by the Mint http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/07/22/138610663/dollar-coin-loophole-closes-for-frequent-fliers
An excerpt: In a statement today, the Mint said:

The Mint has determined that this policy change is prudent due to ongoing activity by individuals purchasing $1 coins with credit cards, accumulating frequent flyer miles, and then returning coins to local banks. Local banks, in turn, returned coins to the Federal Reserve. While not illegal, this activity was a clear abuse and misuse of the program.

​

I agree that #4 was simply an opinion based upon first-hand conversations I've had with other coin enthusiasts, so that is the least valid of all my argument points.

In summation, while I may be biased against the idea due to personal feelings on the subject, I believe that simply eliminating the dollar bill for Congressional blustering is an unwise decision. The American people should continue to have a choice in what type of dollar they use, whether coin or paper, and be able to keep that choice. The arguments I presented here clearly show that people choose the dollar bill over the coin. Eliminating the coin would save even more. It costs 15 cents to produce a dollar coin and around 2.7 cents for a bill. Eliminating the coin would save much more for the immediate future, which is all Congress really cares about anyway.

 

The naivety is overwhelming.

(See below)

 

Okay, here I go again. I know that this is off topic, but it IS about SAVING MONEY.

Some of you are saying "Get rid of the $1 (and some say $2) bill(s) for $1 (and $2) coin(s). And some of you are saying, "Keep the $1 bill around and let people have their "choice" Then there are those of you who talk about using credit and debit and checks instead of cash completely because we are going to a cashless society anyway, which I do NOT want.

So, why is it such a bad idea that the government is not looking at printing a denomination currency note larger than the $100 bill? Okay, okay, forget the U.S. "general public". Okay? FORGET 'em! But with all of these supposed DEMAND especially overseas for $100 bills rapidly growing and the prices increasing in each $100 bill they print because of new anti-counterfeiting features being added every so often or so many years, and because people over there ARE used to using large denominations due to 200 and 500 Euro notes being in circulation, and I DO NOT know JUST "WHAT" the U.S. does by shipping all of those U.S. $100 Federal Reserve notes overseas, but obviously, they are serving some sort of purpose over there, and whether its organized crime or not, there are STILL EVEN LARGER Euros circulating in those countries, and also, take into account that, if the BEP ever solves the creasing problem in the new $100 FRN paper on the printing press and gets those suckers into circulation BEFORE the next currency redesign, which I've heard rumored to be set up to start in 2013 or 2014, WHY, WHY NOT print AT LEAST a $200 and a $500 U.S. FRN, but like I said, why even stop there, when the 500 Euro is worth WAY more than $500 USD$? Why not stop at a $1,000 FRN, to show that WE as a country, are NOT afraid, as a country show some courage and that WE are NOT afraid to do things "because someone may do something "naughty" with those $1,000 bills"? And why not show that we CAN print a STRONGER currency? The $500 FRN would compete with the 200 Euro note, the $1,000 FRN would compete with the 500 Euro note, and the $200 FRN would be there to make a smaller gap between $100 and $500 and thus, saving EVEN MORE money on printing less $100 FRNs and to easier make change for $500 and/or $1,000 FRNs in places that deal with breaking large bills for other large bills, like casinos, jewelry stores and electronics stores and such?

But like I said, why not have a few $200, $500 and $1,000 bills available at banks for those who should have a "choice" just like the "$1 Bill Vs. Dollar Coin" issue, and use them mainly at casinos and large and expensive mechandise stores, and ship the majority of them overseas for whatever they do with large denomination currency over there. And Yes, you should be able to order a few $1,000s or whatever you desire if your bank does not, which it should, have at LEAST a FEW $500 and $1,000 bills available, and even more $200 bills than those two denominations. The one argument I got years ago, was that, some banks are not going to want to keep a strap of $20,000 in $200 FRNs or $50,000 in $500 FRNs and/or $100,000 in a strap of $1,000 FRNs, but why not? They are BANKS. But some people claimed it would encourage more bank robberies to pick up again. They said banks don't get robbed as much anymore, due to most methods of pay being electronic now. But still, does a bank "have" to keep a full strap of these large denominations? NO. Only maybe a half a strap of each, but like I said, every bank I talk to, be it tellers or their manager, they say they love my ideas for the return of these big bills, as well as a widely circulating U.S. half, $1, $2 and even $5 coin. They have also supported scrapping the penny, and even my idea of scrapping the penny, nickel, and quarter and issuing a 20 cent coin to replace it, and rounding to the nearest dime. Something I'm sure many Americans would oppose. I mean, you could lose up to 4 cent per transaction you make, and them 4 cents are big pickin's to many, still.

Oh, and one more thing about "electronic methods" of payment. They are talking about starting to CHARGE people MONEY for using their OWn money on debit cards, and my brother, who has been a LONG TIME DEBIT USER says he will be going back to cash if that happens, and THAT is what these credit and debit card companies want. They want NO MORE cash so that they can FORCE extra money out of you. Like I said, there still IS a demand for larger denominations of U.S. currency, and if you can't deal with it here, then, they STILL want it overseas. Also $1,000 bills are credit fraud and identity theft proof, even if you could lose them or get mugged. Just don't go walking around in public saying, "I've got a $1,000 bill, a $500 bill, and two $200 bills to pay for this cool $1,900 sterio system at Best Buy" or something like that. Keep it to yourself and you would most likely never be detected, until the money is spent at the store and all you have to worry about, is someone stealing your "new sterio system" instead. Which would be a little harder to steal.

What do they do with our $100 bills overseas, anyway? Can someone here enlighten me?

 

Actually, my interpretation is flawed according to the way that YOU see it as all thats really occuring is YOU are repeating the same baseless arguments that folks have been hearing for years which are ALL based upon "interpretation" by those that want the US Government to continue printing dollars bills every 18 months.

And just for the record, I never stated that "eliminating the dollar bill will pull the country out of a financial turmoil".

I said

"Look. This country is in a serious financial hole and the sooner that folks own up to that fact and do everything they can to support "saving" money and doing their "fair share" to get us out of this hole, the better off we'll all be."

How you can interpret that as "eliminating the dollar bill will pull the country out of a financial turmoil" is beyond my reasoning.

All of this "positioning" over how "unsuccessful" the elimination of the paper one dollar bill totally ignores the successful transitions which have occured around the world.

Hopefully, someone will take their heads out from under their wings long enough to understand this so that we can move ahead!

 

That's easy.
END THE FED!

I can think of dozens of good reasons to do that.
Hardly any to get rid of the dollar bill.

 

ever hear of the metric system??

 

Pretty funny reading this thread when the same exact back and forth arguments are going on over here on this one: http://forums.wheresgeorge.com/showthread.php?t=172071 (Choose Display Modes and click on Linear for better viewing of said thread)

It's gotten so bad on that thread that their leader has warned of issuing "infractions": http://forums.wheresgeorge.com/showpost.php?p=4817464&postcount=190

I am against removing the dollar bill for various reasons but I think it's safe to say that bickering from either side of the aisle is futile as I doubt such debates on two Internet forums will have an impact on the final outcome of the proposed legislation...

 

19Lyds,

That's true, I believe that your reasoning is flawed based upon how I see it, the same way that YOU believe my reasoning is flawed. I simply incorporated some other facts to support my stance and give some validity to the points for others in the forum to take into consideration. Either way, I guess people who want to abolish the dollar bill will always argue with those who want to keep it. We should just agree to disagree as I do not see any merit in continuing an argument that is futile.

 

No annual fee credit card. Just pay it off at the end of the month. Debit cards used to charge various pass-through fees which have now been disallowed, so the banks are charging fees to the user to "make up" their supposed lost revenue. And I don't understand your last point there, it doesn't make sense that raising fees, which will force a lot of people to go to cash, accomplishes "no more cash".

The $100 is the largest denomination of the de facto global standard currency. Pretty simple.

Also see: "WILL JUMBO EURO NOTES THREATEN THE GREENBACK?":
http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/bank/hba51647.000/hba51647_0f.htm

 

Wow. I just read this page: http://www.americansforgeorge.org/dollar-facts

Not one fact is actually listed other than quoting the Harris Polls.

 

Lots of interesting debate. Myviewpoint would be as 19lyds, everyone in this country should participate in saving money. Using coins for $1 and $2 is cheaper, and makes the country greater profit. Therefor, we all should be willing to change. Geez, its not hard, lots of countries have done it. Simply withdraw $1 and $2 bills, people will gripe about it for 6 months to a year, and then accept it. Look at Canada, UK, Australia, etc etc. All followed the EXACT same plan, and it worked, and now people are fine with it.

Regarding the $200 and $500 bills, absolutely we should print them. These are interest free loans that mostly foreigners would be making to this country. Why would our country be stupid enough to turn these down? The only reason I can think of is the politicians would think they would lose a little control of us sheeple.

Chris

 

if they made coins, wouldn't it make it easier to counterfeit them? i mean, yeah it'd still be hard, but look at what that chinese guy is doing with the morgan dollar, making really good replicas of them. i'm sure people will think of something.

 

How does that have anything to do with "control" of people?

 

Interest free or not, it is still a loan. Do you really think this country needs any more loans? Don't you think we have enough of those piled up?

 

Try to NOT let the counterfeiting fears overwhelm you. If anthing at all, should that occur, then the Secret Service will pay MORE attention to and take MORE interest in counterfeit coinage of which there's more than enough to choose from.

 

Morgan dollars are worth something though. Cheap metals are not worth to counterfeit for a dollar. Plus, it's extremely easy to counterfeit a dollar bill. There are very few security features and no one checks a one dollar bill when you hand it to them. The problem for counterfeiters is, it's just not worth the risk, time, effort, paper & ink, etc. A dollar isn't really a dollar anymore, sadly.

 

yeah, it is sad, isn't it.

 

If you make it so people cannot easily carry around large amounts of cash, then they have to run their transactions through electronic means, which means its auditable and have a trail.

Why exactly do you believe they STOPPED making $500 and $1000 bills? Not even asking about $5000 or $10,000 bills.

 

Well, I would rather save the interest. Why would you insist on paying interest on this money? Its eve better than that, some of the money does get destroyed from time to time as well, so that is pure profit from our perspective.

Do you really think that this has any affect on the politicians willingness to spend money? Since it doesn't, might as well get free loans rather than expensive ones.