Where were the hubs and dies made for the 1922 cents?

I have it on creditable word that they were made in Philadelphia. Would that be all of them, the masters and the working hubs and dies? Assuming that's the case, I have to ask, what happened next? Conventional wisdom I believe would have it that the D mint marks were then affixed in Denver, which was, thereafter, from whence the coins were distributed to the public. Is that the size of it? Or, I'm wondering, were even the D mint marks affixed in Philadelphia? Somebody slow down and take me through precisely how these cents happened, that's what I'm asking.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

It is my understand sir that the dies were all made in Philadelphia, and sent to the branch mints. At the branch they would affix the mintmark to each working die. This is why you will find mintmarks in various locations on different coins.

For the 22, I believe all of the mintmarks were punched into the dies, its just as they were polished to extend their lifespan, a couple of dies had their mintmarks progressively removed by the polishing. This was probably not unusual, the only reason we know for certain this happened is because Philadelphia did not produce cents that year. This was probably common, but today we just assume a 1923 cent without a mintmark was produced in Philadelphia, while it could have been just like a 22 and made in Denver with a polished away mintmark.

I sure there are experts on here on the 22, but I hope that helped a little.

Chris

 

I believe that all of the mintmarks were affixed in Philadelphia. Occasionally, one of the branch mints would need additional dies, and these were sometimes sent from one branch mint to another. That's why you will find the "O over S" or "O over CC" varieties, particularly for the Morgan dollars.

Chris

 

Really? That would be interesting. I had always thought they were affixed at the branch mints, and things like O over CC was because Carson City had already stamped the dies, but not used them, and the dies were then sent to New Orleans for use.

If possible, I would love some citation as to Philadelphia affixing the mintmarks there. Did Breen cover this? If he did I can look it up.

Chris

 

There was another discussion here about this very subject. I think it was within the last two months.

Chris

 

So let me see if I have it. The hubs, the dies and the marks were manufactured in Philadelphia, the marked working dies were then shipped over to Denver, placed on that press, and the rest, as they say, is history. If that's how it was, just one more question. Did Denver have the capacity in 1922 to manufacture the planchets, or were those manufactured in and shipped out to Denver from Philadelphia, as well? Also, around how many coins constituted a typical die-run back then? OK, two questions.

 

Sounds good.

 

My understanding is that the individual mints did their own planchet production. From time to time planchets would be produced at one mint and shipped to another but that was not the common practice.

 

I agree, one of the basis of a mint was the production of planchets from rolled strip. I believe all mints had rollers and punches to create planchets from metal. That is the reason they located Dahlanega, Charlotte, Denver, and Carson City mints where they did. Why do that if they have to ship the metal to Philly and ship planchents back? At that point it would simply be easier to just ship coins from Philly.

I am still curious on how we know the mintmarks were applied in Philly. Does anyone have a source for this information?

Chris

 

Thanks you guys. Then I can attribute a planchet defect on a 1922 cent (a lamination, for example) to the Denver Mint, as well. Just wondering on all this, you know how it is. Thanks all!

 

Eddie, I'm not sure if this is correct.

Conder, didn't you mention in another similar thread that Denver did not have to punches available to affix the mintmark?

Chris

 

Right. I thought I read some Spanish colonial mints were shipped dies with the major designes in place, but local mintmarks and dates were applied locally.

I am not saying who is right concerning US branch mint mintmarks. I thought they were applied locally, but will not argue if you say they were punched in Philly. I will look at Breen tonight and see if he covers the issue. Unfortunately my US library is not as strong as my ancient one, so I do not have many other sources for such a topic to refer to.

 

Ace, True Value, Home Depot or Lowe's?

Chris

 

I asked Roger Burdette about it, and his reply is below. It isn't a definitive answer, but it is all he had available.

 

Chris,

Thanks for going through the trouble. I will stand corrected, (of course, its not the first time )

To the OP, I believe we are saying:

Denver created the planchet. They struck it with dies coming from Philadelphia pre mint marked, and overpolishing of some of these dies led to a weaker and weaker mintmark. At some point the mintmark disappeared completely. The only reason we know for sure that this happened this year is this was the only year cents were not struck at Philadelphia, thereby giving us proof it is a missing mintmark. Most likely other years this happened as well, but since Philadelphia issues were struck, there is no proving the point.

Sound correct?

Chris

 

I get that, now, Chris, the marked working dies were shipped to Denver, and Denver took them from there.

You know, another thing I was wondering, a lot of people tend to blame the Denver Mint for the poor quality of many of the 1922 cents; however, who knows how many dies were available to it to coin those cents? Why polish dies nearly to death if it had other, fresh dies available? Credit the Philadelphia Mint with an assist in the poor quality that resulted for having failed to have supplied enough good dies for the job, that's how I'm now thinking on that quality-control issue.

 

Speaking of quality control, when the Mint first introduced the Westward Journey nickels in 2004, I purchased $50 bags of both P&D business strikes. The quality was soooooo bad from both mints that they were actually snagging and hanging from my cotton gloves.

Chris