coin grading crash course

Thanks LindeDad.

Are you a member of PCGS or NGC?

 

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PCGS and I'm kind of a cheapskate as I only join at the silver level which is $50.00 per year and no free submissions.

 

How about resubmitting NGC MS70 and PF70s, to PCGS... what do you think the chances of them coming back as 70s are? Also, if they regrade at a lower grade, they return it with the previous companies score, correct?

And I assume all will say PCGS over NGS any day?

 

Nope! I prefer NGC, and I don't give a dang about what "Coin X" sells for in a PCGS slab. NGC has better customer service and they treat you like family. You're just as likely to find Scott Schechter or David Lange chatting with you in the forums, and they have never "talked down" to anyone in the 6 years I've been there. I also like their forums because you can air your complaints about NGC without fear of retirbution. Try that on CU! Also, NGC allows coins graded by PCGS in their Registry, but PCGS only allows PCGS coins in their Registry.

I know you cannot submit 70's for crossover to NGC, and I'm guessing (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that it's the same for PCGS.

Chris

 

You are right that coin grading is highly subjective and will vary from TPG to TPG as well as grader to grader. What one TPG may say is a MS70, another may say the same coin is a 68 or 69.

You are incorrect; however, to believe the more you pay a TPG the more likely you are to receive the 70 grade. The TPGs are not motivated by how much one pays them for their opinion on the grade of any coin submitted to their service. If a coin has all the devices it needs to receive a 70 grade it will be labeled as such. If not, it won't.

FYI, a coin submitted to a TPG is looked at by 3 graders, not just one. Neither of the first two know what each has graded the coin.

 

GDJMSP, cpm9ball and BUuncirculated

Thanks.

I will most likely not submit any of my newer MS or PF coins for grading. I'd rather keep the proof silver mint sets as I received them esp since I cannot absolutely determine if my guesses on 70s would actually be 70s. I will however submit older coins & errors. How about SP coins, For example the 1997 P matte Jefferson or my 1998 S matte Kennedy, are they worth submitting because they are of lower mintage? And the 25th anniversary eagle set, any value in submitting this? Would you?

Thanks again so much everyone

 

I've noted that the 98-S Kennedy has fluctuated between $250 and $325 over the last several years for MS69's(SP69's). I haven't followed them for the last several months, though. Here is one of mine in the (old) PCGS MS69 for you to compare yours against. It's hard to tell from the photos, but there are two very, very tiny "tick marks" in the matte finish which can be readily seen in-hand when you tilt the coin back-and-forth and up-and-down using a 10x loupe and a good light.

Chris

 

Thanks GDJMSP. When I refer to older, I mean 1850 and earlier. I have been collecting for quite sometime, but have never really had an interested in having any coins graded until recently. I want to enjoy my collection and be able to pass the value down for generations or sell it before I pass to buy something stupid like a Lamborgini.

I am still just trying to decide if there's value in this grading process. It seems that SP's, errors and older coins of value are a good choice for grading if they are quality specimens, but my eagles and proofs probably not the best to have graded. How about the 25th anniversary set coming out this week? Would you submit for grading?

 

I have been a Collectors Club Member with PCGS since 2004 at a cost of $200 per year.

I have submitted hundreds upon hundreds of coins for grading at all different levels.

I have hundreds of coins that have been slabbed which cannot be sold for the costs it took to get them graded.

I have what "I think" is a pretty good eye but constantly get reminded of how "bad" my eye is when the results of my submissions get posted.

I am in my early 60's and have some money to waste.

I have learned that the money I wasted is truly wasted and I'll never get it back.

I have hundreds of coins in 2.5 x 2.5 flips which I have selected to be graded but due to the above results have not submitted them and probably never will simply because I've fooled myself into thinking that the coins are actually worth submitting.

I have learned over the years that it does not really matter what I think when it comes to a coins grade. It only matters what the graders think and the graders do not have a vested interest in the coins that I submit and therefore will grade the coins without "owner's bias".

I have learned that Modern Proof Coins are not really as high grade as most people, especially new collectors, believe. I buy at least 10 sets each year, both regular and silver, and have yet to submit any for grading.

I have learned that there are no "perfect coins", modern or otherwise, because "perfect", meaning MS/PR70, is only an opinion as I have seen many MS/PR70 coins which, IMO, are not "perfect".

My advice to ANY new collector is to understand that if it were that easy, then everybody would do it and the poster that recommended looking at the Populations of MS/PR69 coins vs MS/PR70 coins hit the nail on the head. The 69's are all those that the submitters thought were 70's.

 

PCGS Collectors Club Members can submit coins at different submission levels depending upon the coin. Go to this link for a basic pricing and breakdown. http://www.pcgs.com/gradinglist.html

Submitting coins 100 at a time is referred to as a "Bulk Submission" which has its own set of rules and its own pricing tier which can be viewed on this link: http://www.pcgs.com/bulksubmissionagreement.html. That is "generalized" pricing which may vary according to whats being submitted.

When I was participating on the Presidential Dollar First Day of Issue Bulk Submissions, I paid anywhere from $10 to $40 for coins graded depending upon "grade".

Washington MS66 were $10 each
Adams - None Submitted
Jefferson MS66 were $12 each
Madison MS65 were $10 each
Madison MS66 were $12 each
Madison MS67 were $30 each
Monroe MS66 were $10 each
Monroe MS67 were $20 each
Monroe MS68 were $40 each
JQ Admas MS67 were $20 each

Bulk submissions are billed "after" the coins are graded and can be quite expensive. I mean, think about it, 100 coins at $10 each is $1,000 not including return shipping & insurance.

 

Thanks so much 19Lyds. You've answered the question that I think everyone tip-toes around.
It's so subjective and pointless (unless you intend on selling and ripping off uneducated buyers)

Thanks again for your thoughts

 

I like raw coins. I have yet to submit any coins for grading. Why make the TPGs rich? However I believe slabbed coins do have their place.

My rule of thumb for buying slabbed coins is that if I'm going to pay over $500 for the coin, I like to have it slabbed, but I may crack it out. If I'm going to pay over $1000, then it must be slabbed/certified by PCGS, NGC or ANACS, and it stays in the slab. Sometimes I'll even buy slabbed coins for under $500, in that case, most likely that coin is going to be liberated from its plastic tomb.

Just one collector's take on slabbed/certified coins.

 

I have been collecting for about 45 years and have wasted a lot of dollars playing the grading game. It was fun but I did waste money. I'm at the point that I only send in coins that need to be in good plastic to bring a good price at auction. This year I sent in the following. Several Lincolns, 1909-s VDB,s and 1914-D,s. Several Trade dollars and Seated dollars. All were coins that could be questioned at auction. With all the fakes out there, coins such as these are worth paying the price of grading if you see selling them in the near future.

With all that said. I feel it's worth the education to waste a bit of money on the hobby if you learn from it.
Everyone should try it once just for the fun of it.

 

Why are there so many slabbed coins out there to buy or, win at auction, that could never possibly be sold for more than what it cost to slab them?

 

a lot of people have gambled and lost

 

Good thoughts on this thread. I submit coins for grading partly to try to get good results, and so that the coins are more marketable as others have said here.

Does the coin have "issues"; cleaning, rim marks, anything suspicious vis-a-vis comparable coins? In submitting it you will have your concerns either supported or removed.

I don't fall in love with any coin. I enjoy it for a while, then get it certified and sold, either directly or through Teletrade's or Great Collections discounted grading programs. When the coin gets graded at the company of your choice, it gets placed in auction, where you get three shots at selling the coin with a reserve. Through this method, you enjoy the coin, others get to look at the coins high quality images, and then finally someone else gets to own it with pride. To me this is the most ethical system if you have bought the coin at a level where you will not lose money. And that is the kicker--there are plenty of dealers selling coins way over what they should be, they may be in questionable holders. Don't subsidize rackets.

 

One thing that has not been added to the list of reasons to or not to get your coins graded is that of estate liquidity and helping out your heirs when dispensing of your collection. If your collection contains coins that would average $150 - $200 ea or higher, then I would say getting them graded may be a good idea. Here's my reasoning - Leaving an expensive but raw coin collection to your heirs opens up the possibility that one of your numbnut grandkids will sell your collections for pennies on the dollar. Moreover, having your coins graded make it infinitely easier for your family to properly evaluate your collections true worth as all the subjectivity of their price is removed. And even that numbnut grandkid can read a price chart vs. grade and thou he/she may still sell them for pennies on the dollar, you've atleast stacked the cards in his/her favor.

If, however, your coins are valued below $50-$75 ea then grading them all may just be a waste of good money.