Should I go to the NYICS Jan 12-14th?

I was going to go to FUN (Orlando, FL) in early January but canceled the reservation as <the US coin dealers are difficult to contend with> I really don't actively collect US. FUN is almost entirely US stuff.

One concern of course is that world coinage is extremely hot these days and my income has not kept pace (being just an engineer). Still, it would be nice to talk to some of the auction firms and see if there are any interesting yet affordable coins.

Is this an exercise in futility or would it be possible to get 1 or 2 collectible coins at a decent price?

 

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I also agree about us coin dealers and the coins themselves in general, I felt priced out for the most part which is why I switched to ancients and Canadian coins. I also won't be going, living in the midwest it's difficult to find many good coin shows here, though I do get hyped up for the NWCC show when the time comes around.

 

If I go this will be my 3rd NYICS. First 2 were in 1999 and 2000 in the World Trade Center. I was even more of a neophyte at buying world coins than I am now. I did snag a few common Latin America crowns in mint state as well as some French, but all world was unslabbed at the time.

I did get a French Revolutionary (1793) ecu, raw, cheaply, that later slabbed as an ms-65.

On FUN, I recall going once and not finding a single coin to buy in the whole show. Finally, out of desperation, I bought a Chinese copper medallion at $500. although I had/have no idea what it was.

I imagine that there will be no ancients on the floor except at unrealistic prices. Probably all the ancients dealers are hoping to hit the jackpot at auctions where two Sam Brinkerman-Frieds (crypto-guys) engage in gladiatorial combat {Pollex infestus: The "hostile thumb."} over some attractive denarius.

I don't think there will be much Polish there as the Polish auction firms are seeing plenty of action staying at home. This leaves Latin American & miscellaneous talers
for me. Buying a taler would be easiest as I know very little about them and am likely to become enchanted by a pretty but common one. Last time at a local show a young dealer attempted to sell me a restrike taler as an original, albeit at lower than the original's price.

Decisions, decisions...

 

I haven't been to NYINC, but know NY is pricey. FUN has a good number of ancient and World dealers. However, I am opportunistic, and have bought colonial notes or platinum eagles if they trip my trigger as readily as ancients there. So I might not be the best judge. Best part about FUN, (not a Floridian or even live within 1000 miles of there), is cheaper accommodations and warmer weather then NYC. Escaping MN in January is always a bonus.

I hear from a couple of club members who go to NYINC that every single year it goes downhill if you are going there for the dealers. They say every year more and more of all of the stuff you want is going into the auctions and not on the dealers tables. Just what I have been told by members who has attended NYINC for the past 40 years/25 years respectively.

 

My comments were referring to Polish coins at Polish auction firms. Just returned from the International Numismatic Congress which was held in Warsaw this year. 85% of the Congress dealt with Ancients & not world nor Polish coins. But that Congress was academic and not for the numismatic trade.

It depends on the quality of Ancient's and types, that you're looking for as to the best location for buying. I think most major Polish Auction firms are very honorable as Poles are in the process of rebuilding Poland's participation in world affairs after 173 years of being a non-nation since 1795. I had some questions on the {slightly expensive} Polish 5 zloty crowns of 1925 which they went at great lengths to answer even tho I didn't buy anything.

Switzerland, Germany, Italy (San Marino) & of course the US are good sources for Ancients Auctions.

I try to get by, by having a wide variety of interests so I look thru practically everything, but of decent quality.

 

I like going because you never know what you may find. I live in florida, so it's not a far drive for me to Orlando. I can't imagine going to "Noo Yawk" in the winter. You should be able to get some good deals at FUN. I've found that many of the dealers will actually deal with you if you don't come off as a guy trying to get something for nothing.

 

I think there is always the possibility to find something good. It's also a great opportunity to paw through lot viewing of some truly stunning pieces one might not usually see. Check the meeting schedules and see if there are things of interest. I was last there in 2020 so am looking forward to seeing a few friends and more coins. I've got stuff listed at Stacks and will sit in to see the sale perhaps. Then I'll know my budget

 

Would love to go to FUN or NYICS sometime but going in January doesn't work for me cuz I'm too busy at work during this time of year (travel consultant) and weather. Just got done with a 3.5 day blizzard here in the Dakotas no flights for about three days.

 

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It's my belief that coins are exceptionally hot right now on all levels. I'm hoping that the situation changes sometime in the next 5 years. Unfortunately, I am no Cassandra.

 

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The above unappetizing tidbit is the top Google hit on "why is the us coin market so strong". My collecting interests are Ancients, Latin American and Polish + a casual sniping at other miscellaneous items (like talers).

I really don't collect for investment but like most who post on CoinTalk do enjoy getting a nice or important piece, particularly at an appealing price.

Also really enjoy trying to guess what will happen to the numismatic market. I'm a believer in demographic trends which is why, in the long term, I'm bearish on the rare coin market.

 

I encourage you to go to NYINC where I am sure you will find a "nice or important piece", however as the premier coin show in the US that features world coins, I highly doubt that you will find any of those "at an appealing price". My feeling is that the dealers on the bourse will know the current valuation of the pieces they bring so the opportunity to find an undervalued item will be low.

From personal experience, I can recommend smaller shows that also attract dealers in world coins, like the Whitman in Baltimore, where you might find nice items that you have a better idea of the current value than the dealer.

 

Some collectors of World that I correspond with are advising me to go to FUN, in Florida rather than the NYICS. -- for World Coinage. They say NYICS is all Ancients.

Note that I collect certain periods in world coins of some countries + ancients. Not USA.

When I mean "at a good price" I mean perhaps 30% more than the latest highest price realized. However, many important coins often double or quintuple their previous prices realized so it's very difficult to keep up.

An article, which was a #1 hit on Google, explained that dealers could place major coins in less than one day. The typical price was $150K per coin and their clients didn't even have to think overnight about buying the coins. This was US of course but many world coins are heading that way presently. It's like Bitcoin...

 

Oh my! I would dearly love to see that article if you could link it. $150K is NOT a typical price at all! I have spent close to all of 1% of that on the coin that is the most I've ever spent ever ever ever. There are plenty of lower cost coins. Yes, plenty of high end coins as well but I am no where near that price point.

I am a collector of non-US almost exclusively (I have a 7070 that is not complete and probably the last time I got a coin for it was about 5 years ago). I also collect medals. Now, this is a premier show of course so there isn't a lot of super low price stuff (you won't find the row boxes to roll through or the '5 for a $1' type situation. But I've gotten some much more modest coins there.

And yes, lots of Ancients but I have yet to go strongly into that direction and have barely enough time to get through all the tables.

Here is a dealer list: https://www.nyinc.info/dealers.php

I am mildly chagrined at how many I have bought from . But look at the websites for the US based ones and you can see the wide variety of price ranges. Boardwalk, Civitas, Karl Stephens, Allen Berman, Daniel Whyman are names that really jump out as ones I have gotten lower price coins from more recently.

Atlas, Andy Lustig, CRO, higher priced ones, but still a wide variety of material price points, oh and Stephen Album (both via auction and in person) and some of those were definitely not super pricey.

And that was my first quick run through. I'm sure I've slighted someone.

Steve Itkin for medals (that said he is the source of a couple of my most wildly expensive medals, as well as more reasonable) and Paul Bosco for medals.

Jeffery Zarit I've not bought from but he has a wide range.

Harlan J. Berk world and ancients, though his daughter is there (Shanna Schmidt) and is more ancients. Hmm, Louis Teller too. Not to mention the more auction-y house type ones. Oh, and technically I haven't bought from CRO, they just have cool stuff and I've been too slow a few times.

Well, I'm not going to look anymore but surely there are more and maybe I don't remember the generic names as much.

Another thing is to look at the non-bourse events. Some of the auctions might have a session you want to sit on. And I think I mentioned the fact you can go to lot viewings and basically hold any cool coin you want is AMAZING.

Oh, and here is the list of meetings. Medals, ancients, Asian coins, and more.
https://www.nyinc.info/events.php

In any case, I can count on 1 finger the times I've spent 1% of what that article seems to have implied. And it was at a European auction house. I've gone over $5K on one hand. Once was indeed from a bourse seller at NYINC.

On the flip side I have some stuff listed at Stacks, so if the prices are insanely high I won't complain. If anything a stronger dollar is a detriment.

And yes, there will be people placing those $150K coins, but that is no different than the US market and big US shows too. There is room for the more average Joe/Jane too!

I've never been to FUN though. If it's like a Whitman (which I do enjoy thoroughly), then I prefer the NYINC by far. Maybe higher end on average, but so cool otherwise. ANA World Fair is probably more interesting along the lines my more typical purchase, and the events there can also be quite interesting.

That said, perhaps I'm being a little biased if only because I also get to meet people in NYC that don't go to the other shows .

 

Thanks for your detailed reply Stork.

It's a recent CoinWeek article. I'll link to it when I get home later today. I'll also see if CoinWeek will let me reprint it in its entirety here.

There is also a FUN thread here on CoinTalk. It's a major show, Jan 5-8, and supposedly there'll be a lot of World Dealers.

The FUN Show in Orlando. Jan. 5th-8th

Generally, new /unknown coin dealers are very nasty to me. I figure it's partially because I'm not an assertive type but a mathematician. Also they detect that I don't buy the high-end coins such as mentioned in the above article.

Some dealers have been nice to me tho.
I should mention Karl Stephens (world), Ed Waddell (ancients), Mark Teller (world), Mike Dunigan (Mexican), Don Canapparo, and Victor England of CNG (now retired I think). Victor appraised my Roman Otho aureus for free: not even charging me postage.

The large majority of my coins come from auction firms. I deal with Heritage, Stacks (Vicken Yeparian), Goldberg's, CNG, and Sedwicks. Sedwicks (Augi G., mostly LA coinage) is very helpful to collectors and even used to have a free dinner put on at an Argentinian restaurant at their fall show/auction.

In Europe, I've dealt with Gorny & Mosch, Leu, Spinks, Artimede Astia (San Marino). Never got a coin from NAC, nor Kuenker but the latter recently gave me a cloth shopping bag & a notebook. The 2 Polish firms I've dealt with are also very nice: Salon Numizmatyczny & WCN (Warsaw).

However, right now I've a lot of reservations about buying any coins as the market is extremely high.

 

Here's the link: It used to be a top Google hit last week but not anymore.

https://coinweek.com/us-coins/numis...t of the current,past two years industry-wide.

And in another famous quote from the article.
Given current market conditions, <redacted> advises, “Get started now. Talk with your <redacted> portfolio manager and create an acquisition plan.” Rare coin investors who have a plan in place are well-positioned to acquire high-quality and tremendous investment pieces.

That's why I don't have one of these top collections: I never had a plan! I was always looking to improve my Caligula sestersius or get a nice Cleo but never had a plan for doing that. I'd only look at major auctions globally and decide what I wanted to bid on.

As you can probably guess by now I don't really agree with the basic tenants of the article. But it seems that at least a few rich fools do.

 

I don't like New York City any more, although I lived close to there in the 1970s. Crime, hotel and meal costs are a huge concern. For those reasons I would never go to that show. FUN is far better.

One dealer told me that they have clamped down on what the dealers can sell. They can't offer antiquities at the show, which is bothering some of them. It's not like they are selling baseball cards. Since many of them are facing high overhead costs to cover, I don't know what the problem is.

From personal experience as a dealer, I know that people who run FUN are far more concerned about the dealers. One year, when a massive snowstorm shut down the northern airports, FUN extended the security room for another day. You would not find the ANA show promoters doing that.