I've never messed with ancient coins before, but I thought maybe that this might be a good deal and would at least give me something cheap to look at and see if maybe I'd be interested in it or not, I'm unsure. Especial when coupled with what everyone has said about not cleaning coins and the bad rap E-Bay seems to have on here. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3913649038&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT But if anyone has an opinion about it I'd love to here it. Thanks for your input, Zoey
Ebay gets a bad rap on here? Seems to be more positive to me. Despite my personal view on the subject, this deal seems to be okay. At 65 cents per coin, it is kind of hard to go wrong. You will probably have to spend quite some time attributing the coins to determine exactly what they are, but that can be lots of fun. The seller seems to be okay with a quick glance, but you should certainly take a long look at the feedback and all the details involved.
I would not say eBay gets a bad rap but instead would state that those who wish to purchase coins on eBay should be VERY careful and excerise caution - especially when dealing with rare or more expensive pieces. In this case, I say go for it. I have no idea what the Roman pieces normally sell for but it would seem to me that the price is fair and that, like ND said, cleaning and attirbuting the coins could be a lot of fun. In regards to "cleaning" coins - what you are doing is this case is removing dirt and debris from the coin in an attempt to preserve and identify it. This is perfectly acceptable in this case.
I advice _against_ this. You are better off buying such "uncleaned" coins from a recognized dealer of ancients such as Frank Robinson or Francis Rath. A recent article in The Celator (the leading monthly magazine for collectors of ancients) gave dramatic evidence of _fake_ cheapies included in such "uncleaned" lots. A few years back, I worked for a morning visiting an eBay seller in my area, helping him sort "uncleaned" coins that he had imported. We put them into more or less equalized lots. While uncleaned, these were not unsearched. With some knowledge of ancient Greeks and less of ancient Romans, I found it very easy to learn to read these coins through the dirt and parcel out the better ones. If you go to an ANA convention or a regional coin show sponsored by a reputable club, you can find much better bargains in the $5, $10, and $20 range. For about $35, you can own a genuine silver denarius from the Pax Romana high point from a dealer who subscribes to a Code of Ethics ... or for 65 cents you can buy from an anonymous person a coin that was worthless when it was issued during the "Military Anarchy" -- if it is genuine at all. Michael "You get what you pay for."
I only own a couple ancients - a bronze and a silver coin - but someday I would like to learn more. Based on what little I know, this is my advice: If you have $10 or so to blow (don't forget the inflated shipping charge), then have fun. My understanding is that all (or as close to "all" as you can get) ancient coins have been cleaned. Becaue of the age and the circumstances (as in burial in the ground for 1000s of years), it is accepted that they are "restored" to a decent finish. What I have learned is that the choicest ancients are found in clay pots, and are relatively unscathed. The least desirable (and most common) are those simply buried in the ground. Not only are they the most corroded, but sometimes some sort of electrolytic process (or some other kind of scientific hocus-pocus) takes place and the bronze starts to crystalize or something due to contact with the earth and the minerals in it. Finally, while Eastern Europe - where most of these coins are coming from right now - has been unpicked until communism fell, the fact that some good coins are coming from there also makes it prime for counterfeiters to slip their wares into the system. In short - these dirty coins - IF REAL - are low end, probably already picked through for obvious rarities, and are not particularly desirable, relatively speaking. BUT.....if spending 10 bucks keeps you out of the bar for one evening, then you will be ahead financially. Plus, you will have gotten a cheap lesson on ancients. Maybe it will open some doors for you. I can tell you that a decent ancient (and not expensive) is a beautiful sight to behold as you imagine the sheer age of it and where it might have travelled.
The seller actually says as much if you wade through all his hyperbole: In other words, he has cherry-picked the good stuff out of this batch. I frequently disagree with mmarotta, but not this time.
I had a nice experience with an uncleaned lot of straits settlement and old chinese coins my local dealer came across. Inside we sorted out many scares date pieces and there was also some pieces with bite marks n traces of blood.... creepy... I was told in olden times large chinese dragon coins were placed between the jaws of the dead to pay the boat man... It was also quite a pity many of the scares dated coins were corroded on one face while perfectly UNC on the other....
Thank you all for your help and input, I have to admit I'm still on the fence about it... But it was still very helpful to get your advice on it and to not expect to get any rarities. Zoey
BTW - I saw an article on the Inzternet yesterday that some new forgeries are being seeded in with come of these uncleaned lots. I would pay that for fake coins for comparison, so if I knew they were fake I would buy them for sure. I'd be more afraid of getting worthless genuine coins!
I know this topic is now a few days old but I wanted to mention that you should probably shop around. On ebay you can buy these same lots by the 1000 or by the pound, if you choose. Do a little calculating and see which way nets you the cheaper coins. I'm convinced that these are all low end common stuff that have been recently excavated. Construction in the U.S. has become a way of life and it's much the same in many parts of the world. Construction sites/Archeological digs are constantly finding hoards of coins...sometimes vast hoards. There was a guy in my shop just this year that offered to supply me with pounds of freshly dug stuff from Europe.
It is true that we all learn a bit from these hoard lots. I bought two from FRANCIS RATH who advertises in The Celator. I had no illusions that these were going to be spectacular finds. However, they were nice coins, in the VG to VF range, many silver, a few bronze, more antoniniani, and so on, for about $5 each for 100 of them. I got the British Museum references from the local university library and went to work. I learned a lot. To me, however, this a bit different from buying 1000 coins for $1 each, scrubbing them with baking soda and olive oil and then going online to ask people "What is this coin?" Also, these coins while "uncleaned" (and that is not always true) are _NEVER_ unsearched. It does not take long to learn how to search them quickly. Basically, they are junk, not worth owning. I regard them as a waste of money. You get what you pay for. If you go to an ANA convention or other large show, you can find boxes of these "uncleaned" coins and search them right there on the spot for the ones you want -- and pay $2 to $5 each, depending. It seems like a better bargain all the way around. And there is the residual problem of counterfeits. As reported recently in The Celator, some of these "uncleaned" lots contain modern fakes to build up the inventory, a form of "watered stock." Michael
One very nice aspect of buying from the shows is that the dealers can usually be instrumental in attribution and identification. Also, you can build a steady relationship with them. I have recently made the plunge into ancient coinage. My experience in this area is very new. While I have no idea of what 99% of these coins are, I use trusted dealers to get me started in the right areas. While I still agree that bulk buys can be good in certain ways if done with the right mindset, mmarotta's advice should weighed considerably.
As we say, "If you don't know your coins, know your dealer!" When James Beach took over his father's business, the other ancient dealers helped him out a lot and it made a difference. It was important to me to see that happen because it defined the culture of the bourse. If you are new to ancients (see thread), then you really need THE CELATOR. Yes, the articles are important. For a dealer, knowing the dealers is also important. For example, EDUCATIONAL COINS sells attributed ancients 100 for $500, all 2x2ed and ready to go. Allen Berman sells medievals for $7 each in lots of $100 (whatever the arithmetic on that is), again, identified and 2x2ed and ready to go. Berman is the author of several WARMAN'S books on (Modern American) coins. He is a recognized expert in papal coinage. So, if you need someone you can trust, there he is. Michael
I know this is an old thread, but I just joined the forum and wanted to get my two cents in (sorry). I've gotten several sets of uncleaned coin lots on ebay. I found some really good ones (including 1 silver coin) I have also gotten some real crap. My advice, for what it's worth: Check the sellers feedback. Look at the negatives, some are for items other than coins. See how many negatives were for junk coins. Be very suspicious of big quantities at low prices. I got 100 coins once and ALL were crap (they were a gift from someone). I've gotten small lots 10 - 20 coins for about a dollar to dollar fifty a coin that produced at least fifty percent good coins. Smaller quantities 10 - 20 seem to yeild better coins. Remember, you are buying these sight unseen. All that aside, it is sooo cool to find a really nice, attributable, coin from over a thousand years ago. Some of the dealers are pretty reputable, read their description carefully, check their feedback closely. Don't pay more than you are willing to walk over and flush in the toilet in case you get snookered. If you go for it good luck, if you don't, well you'll never know will you?
