Does Collecting Certain Coins Create an Ethical Dilemma?

Conder, dude, take a pill, man. I'm not here for an argument; I'm here to pass some time and have a little fun. If I wanted to argue, I'd leave my den and talk to my wife. The point of my first post is simple: you collect what you want and I'll respect that; I'll collect what I want and you respect that also.

You might want to re-read the last paragraph of the OP.

 

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I think both points are valid...that is why I started this post. There are certain historical events that certain groups look upon as especially bad. Just as an example, most people in the US consider Hitler to be a much more murderous and evil leader than Stalin. However, Stalin's reign did in fact result in considerably more deaths than Hitler's and he had similar ethnic cleansing intentions.

I think that in the US...there are certain events (WWII both Germany and Japan, US Civil War) that have especially taboo artifacts. I don't think many US collector's would flinch if I said I collect 20th century Yugoslavian coins (which I don't)...but I'll bet collectors with Albanian roots wouldn't like that at all.

 

The guys marketing them are seeking a profit selling those souvenirs.

 

Down the road, people who buy those, and unless there is a huge upswing in Silver prices, those people will sell at a loss. It's the marketeers (always) that are profiting. Nothing wrong with seeing a market and going for it (economically) but some do see a problem with doing so off the emotions of America.

 

Are you talking about the WTC coins? If so, do you know the history of those coins? They were recovered and slabbed as such. They were then sold to raise thousands of dollars in aid for the families affected by the attacks. Of course, they are now available on the secondary market...but everyone knew that would happen. Those coins sell for a premium because of their pedigree...just like coins from a shipwreck or a famous collection.

What I have a problem with are people like those from the ad in the other thread. They are selling those coins for several times their market value and advertising like crazy as the 9/11 anniversary approaches. I think that is trying to exploit a tragedy and that is wrong. But the fact that a 2001 MS69 ASE is less expensive than a 2001 MS69 WTC ASE is just what the market has determined.

 

I don't think so. I mean ignoring the history behind any collector's item doesn't change things. For example, ignoring WW ll era German coins wouldn't change the fact that WW ll or the crimes against humanity in that era happened. In fact, I think tokens of such tragedies serves as a reminder today of the disgusting things the human race is capable of, if we do nothing to prevent it. Coins, or any other collectors' items from such tragedies, in my opinion serve well as a reminder.

I don't feel that the WTS eagles are any different, though I don't necessarily agree that anyone should be profiting heavily from the tragedy, I wouldn't feel bad about owning one. We're coin collectors after all, we collect pieces of history. For the die hard patriot, it's the American flag flying in their yard that makes them remember; for the tattoo enthusiast it's that eagle tattoo dated 9/11 quoting "never forget." For coin collectors it's those coins.

 

It is situational ethics for a lot of people. Some think it's ok to collect, say, a bayonet from WWI, but Nazi coins are horrible and should be destroyed. Or that it is ok to collect Roman coins, but not those from Soviet Russia. It's like hating the Confederate flag. It's just history and if it bothers you stay away from it. Collect what you want, somebody won't like it anyway.

 

Um.......I don't believe this is totally accurate. First of all, it really couldn't be proven whether the coins being sold as such were really in the vaults at the WTC. Secondly, there was no intent to share any of the proceeds as aid to the victims until a huge public outcry forced them to.

Chris

 

I refuse to collect coins from Mongolia until they apologize
for the war crimes committed by Ghenghiz Khan.

 

This is an interesting thread. Varied responses as expected, but insightful. About the only coins I do not collect are nazi coins. Simply because I don't need any bad juju. But by all means, people can/ should be able to collect what THEY want.

 

TBH, when I first read the thread title I thought it would be about ancients. Reid Goldsborough just wrote a lengthy article in which he is retiring from collecting in part of the ethics. I agree ancients can be tricky. No one I know supports robbing dig sites, and the truth is most coins never come from important sites. If you wanted to hide your wealth, you did it in private, not where there were others around.

Still, antiquities collectors mainly, and coin collectors somewhat, get blamed for financing looters. I think its not true for coins, but is true for antiquities. There have been a FEW coins documented as stolen from dig sites, and that does bother me. I guess knowing the overwhelming majority are not found there is how I sleep at night. That and the fact that it is the laws of the country in which things are found that force underground activity. Good laws like the UK have encourages dsiclosure and dig site information being recorded for posterity.

Chris

 

I won't collect the WTC coins, I really don't care for having objects that were definitely someplace that more than a few people died. It is bad karma, juju or whatever you wanna call it. I cannot say that for instance a 1941 10RPF or a 1946 USSR kopek were ever in a death camp - not likely. I don't know why people want the WTC coins, but frankly I could care less that they want them - just a bit too macabre for my desire.

I can get into a whole spiel about Native Americans, etc. We all know what happened to them, then curiously they end up on US money ie the "Indian nickel" and the series 1899 $5 silver certificate. Is that politically correct? Darned near wipe out a whole indigenous population then use their images on your money?

 

I agree! The white man broke the treaties with them, stole their lands and then tried to annihilate them as an "inferior race". Then they put them on coins as if this would make up for the past, and now their ancestors have casinos everywhere. More power to them! At least they don't have to beg for charity from bloodsucking politicians.

Chris

 

Its personal for each collector. Have seen this issue discussed here in about 3-4 different threads and times since I registered.

If you are disgusted by certain governments, events or characters, then avoid those coins. Decide what you feel is right and wrong and act accordingly, nobody would judge you, and if someone would, who cares, its your collection.

Personally i got plenty of swastika coins as a part of WWII and Germany collection, but I am repulsed by Hitler portraits and will not add any coins/medals with his image into my collection.
If you dig deep enough, probably 90% of the countries have been involved in quite nasty events in the past, including US. You might be driven into collecting subways tokens instead.

 

Interesting discussion, I tend to violently disagree with some of the things said, but then I thought about an ad I saw in a coin magazine the other day, the coin was touted as possibly one of the infamous 30 pieces of silver that Judas sold Jesus for. Interesting history, but like schottisch money said, bad juju.

That is an unrational response to a coin, I know, but I guess that some might feel the same way about Third Reich coinage, or other murderous regimes.

I like condors response, collecting stolen coins is probably the most unethical way to collect. You may get the coins cheaper, but you will be dealing with thieves to get those coins, and thieves usually do not scruple to steal from anyone if they can get away with it.

 

What about coins potentially made material stolen from others? I know Nazi Germany stole precious metals from its conquered peoples. I don't know if any of that ended up in the silver coins they produced. I'm sure many countries have done similar things.

 

I suppose any coin unless you got it straight from the mint could have questions. But I choose not to dwell on possible negativity, heck I have raised three children so I can be pretty good at overlooking some things.

 

Personally I don't think there is an issue with collecting such coins, but I am offended when they are hyped for profit.
I think to buy them when they are hyped is rewarding the profiteers.

 

Fwiw: I know of American Indians that won't use/handle $20 bills because Andy Jackson is on them.

 

Some of the original marketers said they were going to donate a portion of the proceeds, others did not. And even those that did never said what percentage they would donate. And that was only for the original Collectors Universe WTC coins. By the time the PCGS graded ones came along later they weren't saying anything about making donations.

Bernard Goetz