How can SGS get away with this?

Check out this MS70 I received today from an Ebayer....

http://www.jeffselander.com/auction/SGS Pic.jpg

I'm not a professional collector or grader and this is MS63 at best!

 

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SGS overgrades coins all the time. How they get away with it, well, they are simply dishonest.

 

What's just as bad is the Power Ebayer I bought it from has a feedback of 1752 and 100% positive!!!! And I noticed all he sells is MS70 from SGS! ARE PEOPLE AFRAID TO GIVE NEGITIVE FEEDBACK!

 

They get away with it like this:

A person can grade any coin and give it any grade he wants. Does that mean the grade is consistent with hobby/market standards? Not necessarily.

You must take into account the reputation of the grader when dealing with coins. There are a few reputable companies that grade according to standards... You can draw your own conclusions as to whether SGS is among them...

 

Repeated for great truth. Coin grading is not objective, and does not have the force of law. SGS/Abon can label their coins whatever they want to.

 

How do they get away with it ?
Evidently they are being purchased.
Simple as that !!!!!

 

I've got a pretty good collection and have several MS coins, even a couple of 69 still in plastic (ANACS, NGC), but have NO MS-70 specimens. Personally I think they don't exist, PERIOD. If anyone advertises a coin a PERFECT MS-70 I just chuckle and move on to the next one.


B

 

Here's a link to an experience I recently had with SGS. They rated a Morgan MS67PL that is really an MS64.

http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=13975

 

In all honesty, it isn't his fault that they grade coins poorly, and he IS selling a coin that they graded a 70. As a collector you just have to be aware of the grading company.

 

1 is a number = being first perhaps?

70 is a number = best grade?

100 is a number = being perfect in some tests?

You can practially name a number any way you wish. If he wants to call it MS70, sure, except recognize the fact that his MS70 probably equates to a MS60 in major company grading.

 

sgs grader

I read in coinvalues, an article on tpg,s that was a little to unbiased, I think. it has sgs listed as a grading company and had very little bad to say about them, other than you can crack open thier slabs with your fingernail. I don't think stories like these do anybody any favors, exept for making sgs look like a legitamit grader. Very sad imho.

 

I wonder where SGS gets all these coins. In particular, the Morgans they sell as MS67 are all quite nice looking coins. They all seem to have a blast white, frosty appearance. Now, they're probably MS64 at best. But still, its a shame these nice coins aren't properly graded in a PCGS, NGC, etc slab.

 

TPG means "third party grading". For the record, there is NOTHING 3rd partied about SGS (Star Grading Service) and their eBay powerseller (Aboncom). Nothing at all!

If you are one in the same, please explain how they fall into the definition of 3rd partied?????. Remember, they are BOTH the same and are owned and operated by the same person/company in Ohio.

All this seller does is take bank rolls, fish for the "pretty" ones, and sell them as MS70/PR70 in packaging that "looks" to appear as a TPG product. They give you a certificate which is better served at the bottom of bird cages.

What is SGS then? They are nothing more than marketing and packaging. All they are doing is "putting lipstick on a pig" and hoping for suckers that think they are getting the real deal. If newbie numismatics are fortunate enough to find Coin Talk first BEFORE buying a SGS/Aboncom product, they would have saved themselves some serious money...and headaches.

SGS used to sell 99.99% of their products as either MS70 or PR70 grades. But watch out! Recently, they have ventured into Morgans where you are seeing MS67PL grades (translation = MS63 or less). Buyer beware!! They are just another in the long list of "alphabet slabs" that primarily appear on eBay which is a haven for buying coins "sight-unseen".

There is nothing TPG'ed about SGS...NOTHING!!! To call them a TPG, then you need to call me a TPG too! Here are MY products. Starting bid is $.99 plus $4.95 for S&H. Any suckers out there?

 

Midas, I completely agree. What they're doing is a scam. I guess my point was that they sell such a large volume of these coins and they all look decent. You can't put an AU50 coin in a case and call it a MS67. Even an novice could sniff that one out. Where are all these attractive MS63/MS64 coins coming from? I don't see that many pretty coins at the coin shops I visit. I'm referring mainly to Morgans. I don't think there are too many Morgan bank rolls available to search through.

 

MS63 or BU graded common date Morgans are not that difficult to come by. Even though Aboncom/SGS is selling a few that come across their coffers, these Morgans only represent a tiny percentage of the MS70/PR70 coins that this eBay powerseller is selling.

For instance, I ran a search of the following and here is the number of Morgan matches for MS64 grades or more, just on eBay alone:

1886-P Morgan:

1886 BU Morgan: 55 hits
1886 MS64 Morgan: 28 hits
1886 MS65 Morgan: 35 hits
1886 MS66 Morgan: 20 hits

1881-S Morgan:

1881-S Morgan BU: 34 hits
1881-S Morgan MS64: 37 hits
1881-S Morgan MS65: 37 hits
1881-S Morgan MS66: 20 hits

So...they are out there and SGS/Aboncom are just trying to take a $40 coin and sell it for hundreds more with cute phrases like PL or DMPL MS67!! Definitely nothing "cute" about this!!

 

Abon went over 57000 on his feedback today.
Barnum said it,I don't have to repeat it.

I was looking around eBay today for auctions containing
SGS gems and I stumbled on to the following.

A buyer with a 1900+ feedback rating w/no negatives who
at this moment has over 180 SGS slabs up for auction.
I figured he must be a good customer of Abon so I checked out
the feedback from sellers and there are only 6 feedbacks in total !
With no feedback from Abon and only 6 feedbacks from all sellers
where do all these SGS coins come from, the coin fairy ?
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcapc123QQhtZ-1

 

People can submit coins to SGS for grading, and they probably do, if they are dishonest, because they will be assigned a really high grade.........

 

MS Uncirculated coins will not make SGS Grading Services TOUGH STANDARDS!
But wait, theres more ! "The roll will be sealed with our special Security Seals."

"UP for auction, we have a ROLL (that's 40) MS D Uncirculated Jefferson Buffalo Nickels from 2005!!!! This roll is a great grouping of coins that we have that will not make SGS Grading Services TOUGH STANADARDS!!!! These great nickels are going for up to $20 a piece on ebay!!! The roll will be sealed with our special Security Seals."

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41089&item=8402326366

 

Midas, this makes sense. Thanks for taking the time to research a thorough response.