I bought a Seated Liberty dollar a few weeks ago that is common date, MS61 (OGH), but with problematic toning. I offered it to a well known PNG dealer who said that the obverse was too dingy and needed to be dipped, but that it might then No Grade as environmental damage. I sent it yesterday under PCGS's guarantee review with the remarks by the dealer. How does this usually work and has anyone had experience with this service?
need a little help here as what you are trying to get from PCGS. Do you want your money back or what? And no well know PNG dealer should tell you to dip your coin. Who was the dealer?
I just want to get them to honor their guarantee--either replace the coin with a good marketable one, make the obverse less problematic by removing unattractive toning, or some kind of refund.
If this coin has problems as you say, Why did you buy the coin? And lets see some pictures of the coin. Sounds to me as you made a mistake in buying the coin and you want PCGS to pay for your mistake.
Off topic. Stop blaming the victim. The question is what does PCGS's guarantee cover, are there people on this board who have successfully had PCGS honor their guarantees, etc.. I showed the coin to several supposed experts who both agreed that the coin needed its problems addressed.
Below is my experience with the "PCGS Guarantee". http://www.pcgs.com/Membership/order.html?SubmissionNo=4148651 Below are the emails I've received regarding the above submission: --------------------------------------------------------------------- Please be advised, there was a miscalculation on your order form. Service fee: $75.00 Handling fee: $8.00 Return shipping $24.95 Totaling $107.95 Payment approved on Visa $32.95 Please authorize additional charge of $75.00 on your Visa Please call or e-mail with any questions or concerns. Thank you, Andrea Burch Cash Applications Accounting Dept Collectors Universe 800-447-8848 ext 241 949-567-1241 (direct) 949-833-7955 (fax) ---------------------------------------- From: 19Lyds Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:05 AM To: Andrea Burch Subject: RE: PCGS SUB# 4148651 / ORDER# 20490517 - Lee Lydston - ACCT# 758193 Thank You. I need to ask how you derived a $75 Service Fee? ---------------------------------------- 3 coins @ $25.00 per coinAndrea Burch Cash Applications Accounting Dept Collectors Universe 800-447-8848 ext 241 949-567-1241 (direct) 949-833-7955 (fax) ----------------------------------------- Evidently, PCGS charges $25 per coin for "Guaranty Resubmit-Regular" in addition to the $8.00 handling fee and the return shipping charge. If they agree that the coin is over graded, they'll refund your $25, put it in a lessor slab, and pay you the market difference. On the above, two were spotted up 1972-S IKE's in MS68 and 1 was a misattributed 1971-S DDO FS-103. All three coins have been in PCGS's possession since March 30th, 2011 waiting on David Hall's approval. My advice to the OP is to have submitted the coins under Spot Review (which is free) and simply forget the Grade Guarantee. If the coin fails spot review then they'll downgrade it and pay you the market difference or "possibly" get you a different coin. Spot review takes less than two weeks whereas the grade guarantee can take.....well.......forever with absolutely no communication other than, "It's on David Halls desk waiting on his approval."
If you have looked at graded coins as long as I have you will learn that MS60, MS61 are mint state coins with problems. That is why they did not grade higher. I would rather own a AU58 coin than a MS60 or MS61 coin. AS far as getting PCGS to do anything you might have better luck finding that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
I often wonder if anybody has ever shown a coin to a dealer that said dealer did not try to find some fault with it so as to swing the deal in his favor?:rollling:
Is the coin actually MS? If it is they are not going to downgrade it because the toning isn't attractive. It will still be a MS-61. The unatractive toning may be why it got a 61 instead of a 62 in the first place. Unless the coin actually has wear I don't think you will get anywhere with a grade guarantee submission.
I have no idea how they would handle a coin as old as yours but newer modern coins DO get sometype of treatment. I have had a couple of 1972-S BS IKE's ans Silver Eagles submitted for the free spot review which entails them "removing" the spot. I would assume with some type of dipping solution. However, dipping an older coin is taboo and I expect that Conder pretty much nailed what will ocrru here. Of course, after you pay them $25. BTW, I reguested that instead of lingering further with my submission (above) that they simply send them back to which they replied that they could not.
IMHO any guarantee PCGS provides is dubious at best. Please save your time, money and energy and cut your losses.
You seem to be under some sort of misunderstanding here. NCS does not remove toning, neither will PCGS. They won't even attempt it. And what makes you say the coin is not marketable or that the toning is problematic to begin with ? Did you consider the toning problematic before you tried to sell the coin, or are basing your statement purely on what the dealer said ? And lastly, have you read the PCGS guarantee ? You can find it here - http://www.pcgs.com/guarantee.html They guarantee grade, authenticity, and variety attribution - that's it. They do not guarantee marketability, they do not guarantee that you can sell your coin for what you paid for it, or that you can sell it at all. And they could care less what anyone else's opinion of the coin is. That dealer could have told you that the coin was really an XF40 - and it wouldn't matter to them. You could have 100 certified letters from the most famous dealers in the world saying the coin was over-graded and the ugliest coin they had ever seen and PCGS would not care at all. The only opinion that matters is their own. Now, should PCGS somehow agree with you that the coin is over-graded, and I seriously doubt that they will, then they will honor their guarantee. If they do they will do one of two things - they will give you a different coin of the same grade, or they will give the difference in value between your down-graded coin and one of the original grade. But it will be PCGS, and only PCGS who determines what the value is for both a coin of the original grade, and a coin of the lower grade. And you could produce a thousand auction records showing the value to be X dollars and they (PCGS) won't care. The value will be what they say it is - period. So, you wanted to know how the PCGS guarantee works - that's how it works. And yes, I believe you wasted your money. I expect you to get the coin back in the original holder with a note saying the coin is graded correctly.
I agree. Learn to grade, spot problems yourself. Do not rely on the label. If it's as bad as you say, why did you buy it to begin with??? I know why...it was cheap for the issue/grade, you got a steal on it, wanted to flip it, and now, others are telling you what YOU should have picked up on. Thats why you got it cheap. If my assumption that you got it cheap is wrong, please say so...but I don't see any other scenario. This hobby, while needing the expertise of TPG's for authenticity, allows collectors to get lazy, and not obtain enough knowledge on their own to truly know what they are doing/collecting.
but GD or spock could both do it in under 30 seconds and GD could tone it back in another 30 any color you want too bad we retired
